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Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby JeremyM » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:41 pm

Guardian7347 wrote:SGT Stein. I've been loosely following his story. That article Jeremy, like many of them, is badly slanted against the marine. I'm not saying you're slanted against him, just the writer of the article. This is just one more example of the medias increased attack against anyone who speaks out against obie. Anyway. Basic gist, marine is in a chat board discussing NATO wanting to put the poor kid who unknowingly burned the Qurans on trial. marine says something to the effect that he wouldn't follow any order from the president to disarm or detain a US citizen. While he didn't elaborate initially, he didn't feel he had too. It's understood that we are obligated to NOT follow illegal orders, and disarming and detaining US citizens is seen as a violation of their constitutional rights. Here is the oath of the enlisted soldier:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
As such, we are sworn to uphold AND DEFEND the CONSTITUTION of the United States, and to bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution. This is the very core of our oath. This is our responsibility. Who do we defend it from? Against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. This implies that it must be defended against those who would destroy it from the inside, as well as those who would destroy us from the outside. After this, our primary responsibility, we are also tasked to follow the orders of the POTUS and the officers appointed over us....so long as they are within regulations and the UCMJ. In other words, so long as they are LEGAL orders. From basic training, we are drilled to understand that we must NOT follow illegal orders. We will be held personally responsible for any illegal actions taken, regardless of who gave the order. As such, we have the responsibility, and the right, to refuse an illegal order. Killing unarmed civilians, torturing prisoners of war, and perjuring yourself on the witness stand are all illegal orders. Handing over a US citzen and soldier to a foreign power for trial could be construed as being an illegal order. After all, under what authority does a foreign power try US soldiers for their actions? This is the context for his original statement where he said he wouldn't follow orders from the president. He later went back and clarified his statement to include saying he wouldn't follow any illegal orders from the president to detain or disarm US citizens or any others that he felt were in violation of people's constitutional rights.

That said, there are certain restrictions on what we can and cannot say. Short version is we can't attend any politcal events in uniform or speak in a fashion as to create the impression that we speak on behalf of our fellow soldiers, our unit, or the military in general. We are allowed to hold a personal political opinion, but we must be clear that it is personal opinion. It's frowned upon for us to speak negatively of our commander in chief, as he is part of our chain of command, but not illegal for enlisted soldiers. It IS, however, illegal for officers to criticize any superior officer, up to and including the POTUS.

All things being equal, I think Sgt Stein is getting railroaded. The marines tend to be less tolerant of their soldiers individual rights to free speech, or any speech not signed off on by an O-6 or higher. My personal opinion is they viewed this kid as a troublemaker because of his fb page, but would have been willing to let well enough alone if he had opted to get out when his current enlistment is done. Once they learned he intended to extend, then come the charges to forcibly get him out. I would be amazed if they DIDN'T try to cut a deal with him that required him to NOT re-enlist. Strong arm action is common.


Thanks, man for the details. I had only read about it and found it interesting and sort of pathetic to dismiss this soldier.

I didn't know the back story, but even for the young soldier who burned the Quran, I don't think that kid needs to go on trial and be punished either. Seems both are very political to me. Okay so you do sign an oath and this is what they try to stick it to you with when you step out of line and get too vocal.

Wouldn't the military backlash amongst the armed forces be huge if this soldier gets dismissed? he can't be the only one to think it, or say it publicly.

Was he clear on that facebook account that it was his own personal opinion? I don't see the soldier as a troublemaker, he had views he wanted to discuss, and did, same as all others did on that facebook page, I would assume. So it does seem he is being unfairly targeted.

I think it fucking sucks when a soldier now cannot express his views [ his personal views] nowadays and has to fear losing his job and being publicly made an example for it. No thanks or recognition for time spent protecting and serving his country, just a boot right up his ass.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby cap1015 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:04 am

JeremyM wrote:He was charged with second-degree murder charge in the death of Trayvon Martin and was taken into custody. Odd timing with just other day his 2 lawyers quitting him, and claimed he was suffering from PTSD and fled Florida. The article says if convicted, Zimmerman would face up to life in prison on the first-degree felony charge.

I wonder what new evidence came into play to finally bring about his arrest.


More than likely no new evidence. The thing most people don't understand is that the real world especially the real legal world is nothing like what is shown on television. The CSI and Law&Order factor has caused people to think in timelines not realistic.

In this case the prosecutors have to have almost all of their case in order to charge/arrest the alleged criminal. The reason being should the defense say, great "let's go to trial", the trial will be relatively soon and unless something extraordinary is discovered, the only evidence the Prosecutors can use is what they have listed. This means that before they ever charge/arrest someone in a case like this, they do a complete investigation and also want to make sure that there is no surprise witness or fact that will create doubt/ruin their case. In 99% of the cases any delays or requests for more time comes from the Defense, the 1% is when the defense knows that there is something the prosecutors missed or something that they don't want discovered until after the trial. The Defense can always appeal a guilty verdict, the prosecutor only gets one chance, if they lose there is no appeal.

The delay in this case was probably related to interviewing witnesses, and ensuring that all the procedural process in detaining/interviewing Zimmerman was iron clad so that when they chose to bring charges, there was no risk in the case being damaged by a technicality.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Guardian7347 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:48 am

JeremyM wrote:
Guardian7347 wrote:SGT Stein. I've been loosely following his story. That article Jeremy, like many of them, is badly slanted against the marine. I'm not saying you're slanted against him, just the writer of the article. This is just one more example of the medias increased attack against anyone who speaks out against obie. Anyway. Basic gist, marine is in a chat board discussing NATO wanting to put the poor kid who unknowingly burned the Qurans on trial. marine says something to the effect that he wouldn't follow any order from the president to disarm or detain a US citizen. While he didn't elaborate initially, he didn't feel he had too. It's understood that we are obligated to NOT follow illegal orders, and disarming and detaining US citizens is seen as a violation of their constitutional rights. Here is the oath of the enlisted soldier:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
As such, we are sworn to uphold AND DEFEND the CONSTITUTION of the United States, and to bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution. This is the very core of our oath. This is our responsibility. Who do we defend it from? Against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. This implies that it must be defended against those who would destroy it from the inside, as well as those who would destroy us from the outside. After this, our primary responsibility, we are also tasked to follow the orders of the POTUS and the officers appointed over us....so long as they are within regulations and the UCMJ. In other words, so long as they are LEGAL orders. From basic training, we are drilled to understand that we must NOT follow illegal orders. We will be held personally responsible for any illegal actions taken, regardless of who gave the order. As such, we have the responsibility, and the right, to refuse an illegal order. Killing unarmed civilians, torturing prisoners of war, and perjuring yourself on the witness stand are all illegal orders. Handing over a US citzen and soldier to a foreign power for trial could be construed as being an illegal order. After all, under what authority does a foreign power try US soldiers for their actions? This is the context for his original statement where he said he wouldn't follow orders from the president. He later went back and clarified his statement to include saying he wouldn't follow any illegal orders from the president to detain or disarm US citizens or any others that he felt were in violation of people's constitutional rights.

That said, there are certain restrictions on what we can and cannot say. Short version is we can't attend any politcal events in uniform or speak in a fashion as to create the impression that we speak on behalf of our fellow soldiers, our unit, or the military in general. We are allowed to hold a personal political opinion, but we must be clear that it is personal opinion. It's frowned upon for us to speak negatively of our commander in chief, as he is part of our chain of command, but not illegal for enlisted soldiers. It IS, however, illegal for officers to criticize any superior officer, up to and including the POTUS.

All things being equal, I think Sgt Stein is getting railroaded. The marines tend to be less tolerant of their soldiers individual rights to free speech, or any speech not signed off on by an O-6 or higher. My personal opinion is they viewed this kid as a troublemaker because of his fb page, but would have been willing to let well enough alone if he had opted to get out when his current enlistment is done. Once they learned he intended to extend, then come the charges to forcibly get him out. I would be amazed if they DIDN'T try to cut a deal with him that required him to NOT re-enlist. Strong arm action is common.


Thanks, man for the details. I had only read about it and found it interesting and sort of pathetic to dismiss this soldier.

I didn't know the back story, but even for the young soldier who burned the Quran, I don't think that kid needs to go on trial and be punished either. Seems both are very political to me. Okay so you do sign an oath and this is what they try to stick it to you with when you step out of line and get too vocal.

Wouldn't the military backlash amongst the armed forces be huge if this soldier gets dismissed? he can't be the only one to think it, or say it publicly.

Was he clear on that facebook account that it was his own personal opinion? I don't see the soldier as a troublemaker, he had views he wanted to discuss, and did, same as all others did on that facebook page, I would assume. So it does seem he is being unfairly targeted.

I think it fucking sucks when a soldier now cannot express his views [ his personal views] nowadays and has to fear losing his job and being publicly made an example for it. No thanks or recognition for time spent protecting and serving his country, just a boot right up his ass.
Strictly from a legal standpoint, the oath is more ceremony and touchy-feely than anything else. It can be used as a blunt object to bludgeon people upside the head with when they "step out of line", but other than guilt trips and disciplinary purposes, it's more for show(legally speaking). It's still something many of us take very seriously though. It's power comes from the type of people who are drawn to military service to begin with. You have those who join to get their college paid for, those who join to avoid jail time, those who just want to blow shit up, and those who see it as a higher calling. For those who believe we do what we do to protect Americans, that we do it so they don't have to know the horrors of war, the oath resonates within. The military didn't choose us, we chose the military. And we do it for each and every single American man, woman, and child.
Honestly, not only does it feel politically motivated, but it feels like a complete betrayal every time our commander in chief steps onto the world stage and apologizes to some foreign country for our actions, be they intentional or accidental. Every time he comments about our "deplorable" or "unacceptable" behavior, it's like being shot in the back. You feel shocked, stunned, betrayed. He's supposed to be on our side, and then he promises to prosecute us to the maximum permissible by law? We're supposed to trust our leaders, hell....we have to be able to trust our leaders to watch out for us, and to take care of us. CnC is supposed to be the ultimate daddy image. He sends us out to do evil in the name of good. To commit the one act that you can never take back. All we ask is don't leave us swinging in the breeze with our pants down. We'll do the dirty work, just cover our six. Yeah, some soldiers are going to do stupid stuff. Ever sat around day after frustrating day watching your friends and family members(yeah, we're family...sometimes closer than family) get arms and legs blown off, get killed by a faceless enemy you never see because they hide and leave their explosive little tools to do their work for them? Do you know how frustrating that is? You're trained for direct combat, superior in direct combat, and hog-tied by unconventional warfare. Frustrated soldiers tend to do dumb stuff. Punish them administratively, then take care of them. Until you've walked the long miles in their shoes, don't presume to be able to judge their actions. This president betrays us with his every action, he dismantles the constitution we are sworn to protect, and he apologizes for our actions to our enemies! Is it any wonder soldiers dislike him?
The fb page is still active JeremyM, you can check it out if you like. It has a disclaimer right there at the top of the page stating that these are all personal opinions and not endorsed by the military. To the best of my knowledge, the fb page isn't really what they're getting him on. It's just "supporting evidence" of his behavior, as I read it.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Guardian7347 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:53 am

cap1015 wrote:
JeremyM wrote:He was charged with second-degree murder charge in the death of Trayvon Martin and was taken into custody. Odd timing with just other day his 2 lawyers quitting him, and claimed he was suffering from PTSD and fled Florida. The article says if convicted, Zimmerman would face up to life in prison on the first-degree felony charge.

I wonder what new evidence came into play to finally bring about his arrest.


More than likely no new evidence. The thing most people don't understand is that the real world especially the real legal world is nothing like what is shown on television. The CSI and Law&Order factor has caused people to think in timelines not realistic.

In this case the prosecutors have to have almost all of their case in order to charge/arrest the alleged criminal. The reason being should the defense say, great "let's go to trial", the trial will be relatively soon and unless something extraordinary is discovered, the only evidence the Prosecutors can use is what they have listed. This means that before they ever charge/arrest someone in a case like this, they do a complete investigation and also want to make sure that there is no surprise witness or fact that will create doubt/ruin their case. In 99% of the cases any delays or requests for more time comes from the Defense, the 1% is when the defense knows that there is something the prosecutors missed or something that they don't want discovered until after the trial. The Defense can always appeal a guilty verdict, the prosecutor only gets one chance, if they lose there is no appeal.

The delay in this case was probably related to interviewing witnesses, and ensuring that all the procedural process in detaining/interviewing Zimmerman was iron clad so that when they chose to bring charges, there was no risk in the case being damaged by a technicality.
Personally, I think they're stretching for murder2. I can see a manslaughter charge.
“I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.” ― Robert A. Heinlein
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby jojo » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:53 am

Guardian7347 wrote:
jojo wrote:Go hide Guardian they are gonna get you too :hugs: j/k
I think that says people in the military can't just relax and speak freely without the hammer coming down on them. How tight do military lips have to be under this President? Don't express what you feel is all that says to others, or you will be punished.

So was his fb being monitored, or just that fb page he posted on?
Even if he signed that oath, does that mean he can't have his own views and express them, or does he have to as others have to, stfu and don't talk openly about it?
Not everyone voted for Obama, so does all have to pretend they did and nothing he does is wrong?
lol No worries hon, they aren't getting my happy ass on petty charges like that. :blowingkisses:
It wasn't HIS fb page, it was an organizational fb page, as I've just posted.
The oath we take doesn't prevent us from speaking out against that which we perceive as wrong, especially as concerns constitutional matters. If we feel freedoms and rights are being infringed upon, we have an obligation to speak up. In fact, we, as soldiers have an obligation to not only SPEAK out, but to ACT out. We swear to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. We only agree to obey the president and officers appointed over us so long as their orders are legal, and in keeping with the Constitution.
Only officers are obligated to stfu regarding superior officers(including civilian leadership, ie secretary of defense, commander in chief, etc), not enlisted.


*hugs* you got left hanging on this thread, where'd everyone go who posts in here? weird forum dynamics. :? Can't be Easter break anymore. Bubby? Brake4wind? Jeff? tsetse? Blue? to only name a few not around.

lol, you know why I said be careful :) I know you probably don't care cuz you lol'd. But they are looking eager to snap a few of you guys on petty stuff. Anything new happen on this story since?

So was the page a military used one, and if they got him probably others too? I don't have a facebook so I don't know if page owners get ips and can give or info of who joins. Or did they just read what he wrote there and went and stalked his info on his own page? he should make his page private. Is that why he spoke up, he felt there was a wrong? Why do officers have to STFU over just the enlisted men/women? idk why.

Did everyone bore of the Zimmerman case lol? I haven't. And since Bubbydoll has yet to log in, I'll give more updates for at least her to read since she was the one who asked for info about this case.

So he is out of jail now, released on a bail of $150,000. Idk if that is a low bail for the crime and sentence they brought him on?
Pic of him leaving jail:
Image
http://globalgrind.com/news/george-zimmerman-released-jail-photos

Recall he said he had a bloody head and everyone said it wasn't seen on that 1st police station vid?
The photo obtained exclusively by ABC News shows the bloodied back of Zimmerman's head, which was taken three minutes after he shot and killed Trayvon.

Image
http://globalgrind.com/news/george-zimmerman-bloody-head-shot-trayvon-martin-graphic-photo?gpage=0#gtop


Posting the links too incase someone else wants to see where the pics came from.
http://globalgrind.com/news/george-zimmerman-police-report-trayvon-martin-final-words-sanford-florida-details
I don't know what " you got it" is supposed to mean? maybe got his gun?
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby jojo » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:02 am

Here is a new question since people got tired of that issue.

What is with people on the internet lying about their ethnicity? Obviously it is something like your age and sex that you can only lie about online, long distance but what causes people to do it, I am talking about Caucasians claiming to be other races, nationalities etcs.

Are these people that ashamed of who they are they would lie even about that? I don't get it. Do they think being more ethnic makes them more interesting to people they don't even know, lol.


Thoughts? :idea:
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Nostalgic » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:16 am

Some people just love to lie about anything and everything.
It's weird and I don't get it?
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby tsetse22 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:38 am

jojo wrote:Here is a new question since people got tired of that issue.

[size=150] What is with people on the internet lying about their ethnicity? Obviously it is something like your age and sex that you can only lie about online, long distance but what causes people to do it, I am talking about Caucasians claiming to be other races, nationalities etcs.

Are these people that ashamed of who they are they would lie even about that? I don't get it. Do they think being more ethnic makes them more interesting to people they don't even know, lol.

Thoughts? :idea:



On line anonymity is like a shield. Why lie? Well it's easy, for one, so my guess is Ego and a perceived advantage towards being liked,or simply as a way to play someone else for entertainment reasons.
For the instances I'm right, as there must be more than one reason, it can be a cross between the entertainment value and a low idea of oneself. I personally believe if you're not the epitome of yourself all the time, you're doing it wrong.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Guardian7347 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:54 am

*hugs* you got left hanging on this thread, where'd everyone go who posts in here? weird forum dynamics. Can't be Easter break anymore. Bubby? Brake4wind? Jeff? tsetse? Blue? to only name a few not around.

lol, you know why I said be careful I know you probably don't care cuz you lol'd. But they are looking eager to snap a few of you guys on petty stuff. Anything new happen on this story since?

So was the page a military used one, and if they got him probably others too? I don't have a facebook so I don't know if page owners get ips and can give or info of who joins. Or did they just read what he wrote there and went and stalked his info on his own page? he should make his page private. Is that why he spoke up, he felt there was a wrong? Why do officers have to STFU over just the enlisted men/women? idk why.

Did everyone bore of the Zimmerman case lol? I haven't. And since Bubbydoll has yet to log in, I'll give more updates for at least her to read since she was the one who asked for info about this case.

So he is out of jail now, released on a bail of $150,000. Idk if that is a low bail for the crime and sentence they brought him on?
Believe me hon, I'm only TOO aware of why you told me to be careful, but I DO appreciate the sentiment. :hugs: They are eager to hit people on little stuff right now. They're facing pretty massive budget cuts, and the first place they look is to manpower. They'll go after those who fail the PT test first, then those who don't make height/weight(that system is in dire need of overhaul honestly), then people who have disciplinary problems, then people who have waivers for whatever reason, and they'll just keep right on cutting poeple until they've gutted the ranks. You want to save money on manpower? Start the cuts at the top with generals and colonels who are making a LOT of money. Anyway, point is, things are going to start getting shady with discharges. They're going to be putting people out for all sorts of different reasons. Here's a question for the ages. Why is it liberals are all for cutting the military, and shrinking it down when that means thousands of lives are uprooted instantaneously, without severance, without warning? Many of those cut are the lower enlisted and the NCO's, and many of which do NOT have a college degree or even marketable skills. Guarantee that the bulk of those cuts are going to come from the infantry....not a skill set that translates very well to the civilain sector. Employer: "Um...how many words per minute can you type?" Grunt: "Uh....I don't know....like, five...maybe....but I shot 39 out of 40 on my last Qual range and I scored a 293 on my last PT test!" Employer: "Um...that's nice. How familiar are you with Excel?" Grunt: "I know I could 'excel' at shooting you in the fucking head from that rooftop over there if you don't give me this damn job!" Yes, that was a completely superfluous, but it's funny to me dammit! :lol: (I keep getting side-tracked) Anyway, my point is, liberal politicians tend to be all in favor of shrinking the military and turning out tens of thousands of now un-skilled young people whose pay was a pittance, but these same liberals will scream and yell about injustice when someone suggests cutting the fat from the civilian federal employee rosters....those people making easy double or even triple what those young soldiers were making. I'd agree to a two for one job cutting process. One federal employee for two soldiers. The cost savings would be multiplied dramatically, and we could still keep our manpower levels at a comfortable level.

Officers and enlisted have different standards. To be an officer, you are expected to be an ideal, and to present a united front of agreement to the soldiers under you. Officers are not permitted to speak badly of a superior officer, and since obie is the commander in chief(with even less military experience than political experience), he is technically an officer. Enlisted soldiers are expected to grumble and complain about stuff. That's kind of what they do. They're expected to bitch about orders from higher up. By joining the enlisted in complaining, it breaks that command cohesion.

Zimmerman's bail is pretty fair. He's not a flight risk, and there's no reason to believe he would be a threat to the community if released, so overall, it seems about right. I've only kept very loose tabs on this case personally.
As for the Devildog teaparty guy, I don't know his status off hand. I think he's in some hold status, awaiting a decision on something. I'm horrible, I know. lol
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby JeremyM » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:08 am

Thanks, Cap and Guardian for the follow up and info back a few posts.

I didn't think his bail was high at all, but considering how long it took for him to be taken in and for any proceedings to get going at all not shocking. Things came out that sort of squashed the opinion that he was/is a racist, ie. his mentoring of two black kids.

Plus all that stuff about him racial profiling on the 911 call was bogus- he only answered what the dispatcher asked him. Once again the media trying to make something out of nothing.

A Florida judge rejected a prosecution request to raise the bond for George Zimmerman on Friday, after it was disclosed that the man charged with murdering unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin had received about $200,000 from anonymous donors to fund his defense.


About that soldier and Facebook he was discharged.
A sergeant will be discharged for criticizing President Barack Obama on Facebook in a case that called into question the Pentagon's policies about social media and its limits on the speech of active duty military personnel, the Marine Corps said Wednesday.

Sgt. Gary Stein will get an other-than-honourable discharge and lose most of his benefits for violating the policies, the Corps said.

The San Diego-area Marine who has served nearly 10 years in the Corps said he was disappointed by the decision. He has argued that he was exercising his free-speech rights.

"I love the Marine Corps, I love my job. I wish it wouldn't have gone this way. I'm having a hard time seeing how 15 words on Facebook could have ruined my nine-year career," he told The Associated Press.

Gary Kreep, an attorney for Stein, said he would pursue administrative appeals within the Marine Corps but anticipates the effort will be denied. He said he planned to file an amended complaint in federal court.

"As long as he wants to pursue this, we will be supporting him," said Kreep, who is executive director of the United States Justice Foundation, an advocacy group.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby JeremyM » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:18 am

jojo wrote:Here is a new question since people got tired of that issue.

What is with people on the internet lying about their ethnicity? Obviously it is something like your age and sex that you can only lie about online, long distance but what causes people to do it, I am talking about Caucasians claiming to be other races, nationalities etcs.

Are these people that ashamed of who they are they would lie even about that? I don't get it. Do they think being more ethnic makes them more interesting to people they don't even know, lol.


Thoughts? :idea:


Lolz, all I can think is what sad fucks. I can get why people lie about certain things in general and definitely online- to protect their privacy. But lying about race seems real low and you would think everything else that female or male says is lies too.

Aren't these people usually the types with the overly dramatic lives, exaggerated back history, lifestyle? The been there- done that types? What is funnier is they also probably lie on their genders so any guys or girls cybering-flirting them are in for a shock.

They are on all forums, this one included. It is more hilarious that they think others cannot tell they are full of shit and who they are. Why do they do it? Lonely, bored, I don't really care, I usually ignore those types.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Guardian7347 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:15 am

jojo wrote:Here is a new question since people got tired of that issue.

What is with people on the internet lying about their ethnicity? Obviously it is something like your age and sex that you can only lie about online, long distance but what causes people to do it, I am talking about Caucasians claiming to be other races, nationalities etcs.

Are these people that ashamed of who they are they would lie even about that? I don't get it. Do they think being more ethnic makes them more interesting to people they don't even know, lol.


Thoughts? :idea:
:shock: I...have...no...idea. I didn't realize people did this. What's the point? What do you gain by lying about your ethnicity to a bunch of strangers who don't give a shit what race you are to begin with?
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby tropicalheatwave » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:51 am

jojo wrote:What is with people on the internet lying about their ethnicity?

jojo wrote:I am talking about Caucasians claiming to be other races, nationalities etcs.


maybe they are sick and tired of waking up Caucasian everyday. :cheesy:
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Guardian7347 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:00 am

tropicalheatwave wrote:
jojo wrote:What is with people on the internet lying about their ethnicity?

jojo wrote:I am talking about Caucasians claiming to be other races, nationalities etcs.


maybe they are sick and tired of waking up Caucasian everyday. :cheesy:
:lol: Looking for a little variety in their life?
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Soulkiss333 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:20 am

@JOJO

I talked about this when I first join about a year ago. But to make clear ppl in person lie about their age and gender not just on the internet. I am always amazed how ppl could sleep with anyone but didnt know they were the same sex. Anyway, that is a different topic. I remember when I was talking about this on here I had a experience with this girl claiming to be Japaneses (this was right after the tsunami), we were playing poker online and they had a pic of a normal asian girl...not fancy or anything, just an average everyday girl. Their English was a little broken but we could still communicate. I had live in Japan before and they told me they were Japaneses and lived in Japan, a long story short....they were a male not a girl and he was filipino and not Japaneses. I like anyone who just likes to talk.. girl /guy /any race. So, I guess he just maybe have a strong connections to Japanese Cultures and had a lot of knowledge of the language and culture. Anyway, I guess the computer might gave him experiences of what it was like to be someone else. Sometimes it could be that ppl feel more connected to a different race other than their own.I know I feel very connected to the Japanese culture, I never lied about it and I do love my own culture and race as well.

I go to the Japanese talk chat for ppl who are into Japanese culture. There is tons of Japanese ppl on there (most want to learn English) but it is to make friends and talk about Japan and culture, anyway, it is amazing how many ppl pretend to be Japanese that are not. What is even more amazing the Japaneses ppl will almost noticed and catch it right away. One way is that Japanese have a 100% literacy and any mistake they know you are not Japanese plus there are sounds (letters) that are correct but they havent been spoken that way in a long time. Also, men and women speak differently in Japan too. It is so amazing a person will come on there and say they are looking for friends and are Japaneses (writing in Kanji) and that is all they would write and like a bunch of Japaneses ppl come on and attack them and say YOU ARE NOT, going by one sentence, I couldnt tell.

Mostly, I think ppl just enjoy another culture a lot and just wants to act it out. Some may hate their own race but many may not,or they just have a stronger connection with another race kinda like Halloween you get to be you on the inside but different on the outside. Sometimes I wonder if there can be a thing like for sex, you got straights, gays, bi, transgender, drag queens, etc which are all different in how they think( the way their mind is connected) what they relate to or connect to maybe race can be the same way, ppl just have a stronger connections with another race. I believe in reincarnation so I actually dont think it is that far fetch. After my experience with this I was a little distaught by it, but I decided to try and put myself in their shoes and see what I could come up with and that is what I came up with. I dont know if Whites do it more than anyone else but I know a lot of white ppl dont get as much creditably when discusses certain issues. I know I came in a conversation a couple of times discussing race issues and when some of my white friends say stuff ppl dont think they know what they are talking about or dont believe they should feel that way but if I say it ppl seem to listen better and give me more creditably (and a lot of it is other whites not giving whites enough creditably...white on white). Whites get creditable in a lot of things, but when discussing certain issues like race issues they dont always get a fair say, I think.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby SharA2 » Wed May 02, 2012 8:52 am

jojo wrote:Here is a new question since people got tired of that issue.

What is with people on the internet lying about their ethnicity? Obviously it is something like your age and sex that you can only lie about online, long distance but what causes people to do it, I am talking about Caucasians claiming to be other races, nationalities etcs.

Are these people that ashamed of who they are they would lie even about that? I don't get it. Do they think being more ethnic makes them more interesting to people they don't even know, lol.


Thoughts? :idea:


I do not understand why people have to lie in real life and online to begin with-- the nature of online makes it so much more feasible and easy to stretch the truth about yourself and your life. But there always has to be some other issues those people have that cause them to do it in the first place, perhaps emotional issues. I wonder if it doesn't involve some self-hate? One of my sister's found out someone she was talking to on Facebook was lying about almost everything about themselves, she said she could have forgiven them if the lies were not so in-depth and disturbing, she felt sorry for that person but not enough to continue being friends. Perhaps for some men and women pretending to be another ethnicity is to attract the opposite sex? I cannot understand the mind-set behind that sort of deception.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby St. Dymphna » Thu May 03, 2012 9:42 am

online is a fantasy world where you can do, say or be whatever you want. when you gauge this world by the same standards you measure reality:
But there always has to be some other issues those people have that cause them to do it in the first place, perhaps emotional issues.

:you end up with truly judgemental idiots too insecure about whatever to stfu long enough for anyone else to enjoy online for what it really is.

especially in chat forum such as these. people like this ruin it for everyone else; blame everyone else for whatever, too.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Guardian7347 » Fri May 04, 2012 3:28 am

St. Dymphna wrote:online is a fantasy world where you can do, say or be whatever you want. when you gauge this world by the same standards you measure reality:
But there always has to be some other issues those people have that cause them to do it in the first place, perhaps emotional issues.

:you end up with truly judgemental idiots too insecure about whatever to stfu long enough for anyone else to enjoy online for what it really is.

especially in chat forum such as these. people like this ruin it for everyone else; blame everyone else for whatever, too.
Way to stay with the times idiot. Once upon a time when chatrooms were populated by as many pornbots as people, and everyone was movie star attractive, the internet was a playground. Back then, there were few legitimate purposes for the net, leaving it largely the domain of the immature and delusional....like yourself. Over time, however, the internet has grown in legitimacy and practical uses, slowly pushing people like yourself to the fringes. Today,it's a tool of communication and information more than anything else, and people want their information to be accurate and true. For evidence of this, you need look no further than DM itself. In the pic thread, people post their own pictures, warts and all. We've got some attractive people, we've got some that aren't so attractive. More importantly.....no one cares! We want to "see" each other as they really are, the people we communicate with. Online dating is at an all-time high, and is tracking to go higher still. The number of couples who met online and pursued a relationship from there is climbing as well. That used to be considered high-risk behavior, because you never knew what you were really going to meet. Now, people can expect to meet the person they were talking with online. It's just assumed that they'll be honest. As such, relationships forged online now are forged using the same criteria as we would use meeting face-to-face.
You're the one who needs to stfu and look around you. You keep yelling "it isn't real" hoping that if you say it enough it will make it true. You remind me of Dorothy from "The Wizard of Oz", tapping your heels together, chanting "There's no place like home! There's no place like home!" Well Dorothy, this IS reality. It's time you woke up to it.
Speaking of insecurities....Shara must have really hit a raw nerve to get such a reaction from you. Logic would seem to suggest that those who hide behind multiple identities and made up realities would be more likely to have insecurity issues, hiding from themselves, whereas people who share themselves as they are, in real life, would tend to be far more secure in their own person. I'd say Shara hit the nail on the head, causing you to lash out at her in your infantile, "you hurt my feelings", kind of way.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby JeremyM » Fri May 04, 2012 4:55 am

Soulkiss333 wrote: I am always amazed how ppl could sleep with anyone but didnt know they were the same sex. Anyway, that is a different topic.


WTF, the Crying Game? Are you talking about she-males? I have no idea why people wouldn't notice- maybe because they are lonely, or too trusting and naive or have sexuality issues themselves?

Everything green said refers to himself, lolz? Good boy- self reflection is a step in the right direction.

I still like what I said about these people:
all I can think is what sad fucks
:whistling:
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Guardian7347 » Fri May 04, 2012 5:08 am

JeremyM wrote:
Soulkiss333 wrote: I am always amazed how ppl could sleep with anyone but didnt know they were the same sex. Anyway, that is a different topic.


WTF, the Crying Game? Are you talking about she-males? I have no idea why people wouldn't notice- maybe because they are lonely, or too trusting and naive or have sexuality issues themselves?

Everything green said refers to himself, lolz? Good boy- self reflection is a step in the right direction.

I still like what I said about these people:
all I can think is what sad fucks
:whistling:

:rofl: you're comment still holds true.
How in the hell did I somehow manage to overlook Soul's comment? lol I must have been distracted by some other comment somewhere. I wonder the same thing. How could you possibly have sex with someone and not notice what parts they're packing? :? That's disturbing....
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby JeremyM » Fri May 04, 2012 5:20 am

Lolz. I wonder when people "accidentally" hook up with the same sex as them do they then start questioning their own sexual preference?

To me green's post is about this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
But to me I do not know a single person who wants to converse with a bullshit artist in real life or online, and people who like playing those kinds of mind games do it because they are fucked up in the head for whatever reason. If lying is how you have fun, you had better examine yourself a lot closer than you might be doing. So Shara's "emotional issues" IMO is true.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby St. Dymphna » Fri May 04, 2012 5:36 am

see what i mean, guests. lol
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby JeremyM » Fri May 04, 2012 5:42 am

I will give you some credit, you are showing a lot more restraint and I don't think you want this thread locked- you were careful not to name quote.

It is an interesting topic that jojo brought up, more people should be discussing it. :2cents:
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby tropicalheatwave » Sat May 05, 2012 12:10 pm

JeremyM wrote:It is an interesting topic that jojo brought up, more people should be discussing it. :2cents:
well i feel the same way about this as i do about the firefighter who lied about being a hero. everyone gets caught up in their own fantasies at times. for example: lets say your a tough fighter. you can kick everyone's ass both in and out of the ring. you feel confident, fearless, invincible. like your the toughest man alive. then one day you get ambushed by a big guy who slams you against the wall. then shoves a gun in your mouth, knocking all your teeth out, while holding a knife by your groin area and now your just a scared little bitch shitting in your pants. now the reality has come that you are vulnerable, that you are nothing, and everything else is self created. it is the same with people on the internet. they are just creating themselves knowingly or unknowingly. its easy to separate yourself from everyone by labeling them as this or that without looking within and realizing your the same.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Guardian7347 » Sun May 06, 2012 12:15 am

tropicalheatwave wrote:
JeremyM wrote:It is an interesting topic that jojo brought up, more people should be discussing it. :2cents:
well i feel the same way about this as i do about the firefighter who lied about being a hero. everyone gets caught up in their own fantasies at times. for example: lets say your a tough fighter. you can kick everyone's ass both in and out of the ring. you feel confident, fearless, invincible. like your the toughest man alive. then one day you get ambushed by a big guy who slams you against the wall. then shoves a gun in your mouth, knocking all your teeth out, while holding a knife by your groin area and now your just a scared little bitch shitting in your pants. now the reality has come that you are vulnerable, that you are nothing, and everything else is self created. it is the same with people on the internet. they are just creating themselves knowingly or unknowingly. its easy to separate yourself from everyone by labeling them as this or that without looking within and realizing your the same.
I see your point, and agree...to a point. I think there are those who create a whole new persona online, a fair number of people who, either knowingly or unknowingly, "modify" who they are to some degree, but I disagree that everyone does it. I firmly believe some people are just themselves online.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby jojo » Sun May 06, 2012 8:46 am

Guardian7347 wrote:Believe me hon, I'm only TOO aware of why you told me to be careful, but I DO appreciate the sentiment. :hugs: They are eager to hit people on little stuff right now. They're facing pretty massive budget cuts, and the first place they look is to manpower. They'll go after those who fail the PT test first, then those who don't make height/weight(that system is in dire need of overhaul honestly), then people who have disciplinary problems, then people who have waivers for whatever reason, and they'll just keep right on cutting poeple until they've gutted the ranks. You want to save money on manpower? Start the cuts at the top with generals and colonels who are making a LOT of money. Anyway, point is, things are going to start getting shady with discharges. They're going to be putting people out for all sorts of different reasons. Here's a question for the ages. Why is it liberals are all for cutting the military, and shrinking it down when that means thousands of lives are uprooted instantaneously, without severance, without warning? Many of those cut are the lower enlisted and the NCO's, and many of which do NOT have a college degree or even marketable skills. Guarantee that the bulk of those cuts are going to come from the infantry....not a skill set that translates very well to the civilain sector. Employer: "Um...how many words per minute can you type?" Grunt: "Uh....I don't know....like, five...maybe....but I shot 39 out of 40 on my last Qual range and I scored a 293 on my last PT test!" Employer: "Um...that's nice. How familiar are you with Excel?" Grunt: "I know I could 'excel' at shooting you in the fucking head from that rooftop over there if you don't give me this damn job!" Yes, that was a completely superfluous, but it's funny to me dammit! :lol: (I keep getting side-tracked) Anyway, my point is, liberal politicians tend to be all in favor of shrinking the military and turning out tens of thousands of now un-skilled young people whose pay was a pittance, but these same liberals will scream and yell about injustice when someone suggests cutting the fat from the civilian federal employee rosters....those people making easy double or even triple what those young soldiers were making. I'd agree to a two for one job cutting process. One federal employee for two soldiers. The cost savings would be multiplied dramatically, and we could still keep our manpower levels at a comfortable level.

Officers and enlisted have different standards. To be an officer, you are expected to be an ideal, and to present a united front of agreement to the soldiers under you. Officers are not permitted to speak badly of a superior officer, and since obie is the commander in chief(with even less military experience than political experience), he is technically an officer. Enlisted soldiers are expected to grumble and complain about stuff. That's kind of what they do. They're expected to bitch about orders from higher up. By joining the enlisted in complaining, it breaks that command cohesion.

Zimmerman's bail is pretty fair. He's not a flight risk, and there's no reason to believe he would be a threat to the community if released, so overall, it seems about right. I've only kept very loose tabs on this case personally.
As for the Devildog teaparty guy, I don't know his status off hand. I think he's in some hold status, awaiting a decision on something. I'm horrible, I know. lol


lol, I haven't been able to re check but I assume you had not modified a thing? I think all soldiers should be allowed their freedom of speech regardless of who they mouth off about, president or anyone. He loses all his military benefits cuz of that and it isn't fair, imo.

Why can't you all rally to change those rules, if the opinion of the masses is one way, can't you all change this? They were able to get the don't ask, don't tell removed. Anything is possible? On why are they cutting spending on the lower ranks not affecting the colonels etc cuz they fake care about our soldiers but if they can't put their money (literally) where their mouths are, then they don't care, you all are expendable.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby jojo » Sun May 06, 2012 8:57 am

Thank to everyone who answered my question. :D
It was off something my brother told me, he belongs to lots of websites/forums and gaming sites and encountered a few people who got caught out on doing exactly what I asked. I hadn't really heard of people lying about race online before, but nothing is forbidden when it comes to the internet and lying, people even fake terminal illnesses. :roll:

No reason to name call on people as idiots, St. D, we are all adults in here. You can have your view and others can have theirs, not like anyone was directing anything at you, you don't lie about your ethnicity. That is the topic being discussed, and then it leads to other lies. Internet lying is like eating tempting food, you can't just stop at having one you need to have more.

I agree internet lying is a game of boredom for lots. Not meant to hurt others or manipulate situations to their advantage, but for some it actually is that goal.

On people not knowing that person they hooked up with was the same sex, that is creepy weird. Unless really stunning trannies, you'd not know until you felt them up or undressed them.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby St. Dymphna » Sun May 06, 2012 11:05 am

you're a child
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby KRSTYSTLCLR » Sun May 06, 2012 8:01 pm

and you aren't?
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Guardian7347 » Sun May 06, 2012 9:45 pm

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote:and you aren't?
You would think so, right? SURPRISE! He's not even in his twenties anymore.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby KRSTYSTLCLR » Mon May 07, 2012 4:06 am

:clap: :cabbagepatch: :cabbagepatch: :rofl:

Where ya been? :blowingkisses:
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby St. Dymphna » Mon May 07, 2012 8:19 am

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote::clap: :cabbagepatch: :cabbagepatch: :rofl:

Where ya been? :blowingkisses:

the over use of smilies is kinda sad, to be honest.
there are better ways of going about your need for attention, if that is indeed what you're looking for.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby KRSTYSTLCLR » Mon May 07, 2012 8:28 am

Such as starting meaningless drama. That's what you do when your aching for attention right? :harhar: Another troll wasting time by starting needless drama.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby St. Dymphna » Mon May 07, 2012 8:32 am

apparently it's had an affect on you, as you've lifted 2 mannerisms from my last 2 post and pawned em off as your own in only the span of 5 minutes.

you're also fat.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby KRSTYSTLCLR » Mon May 07, 2012 8:35 am

And your not? Dipshit! :rofl:
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby JeremyM » Mon May 07, 2012 8:37 am

Lolz, don't quote St D, all his posts will be removed probably at some point since he is breaking the rules of the thread. Trolling, name calling without keeping on topic. :2cents:

To his : You're a child.

No, she would be a teen wouldn't she? 19 is a teenager.
PK is 12? She would be considered a child.
St. D would be considered- childish.

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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby KRSTYSTLCLR » Mon May 07, 2012 8:39 am

:clap: :clap: :clap: :icecream: :rarara:
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby St. Dymphna » Mon May 07, 2012 8:40 am

i'm childish, so what?
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Guardian7347 » Mon May 07, 2012 9:45 am

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote::clap: :cabbagepatch: :cabbagepatch: :rofl:

Where ya been? :blowingkisses:
I've been around here and there. Not been doing a whole lot of posting, but some. :hugs:
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Guardian7347 » Mon May 07, 2012 9:56 am

To be fair, I don't mind when SD is being childish. That can be amusing when he's "on", and he isn't nearly as nasty.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby KRSTYSTLCLR » Mon May 07, 2012 11:59 am

New Topic.

Dubai's underwater hotel....

Have you seen Image





I would love to go to this place. Why hasn't someone come up with this sooner? I want one here in Cali.

http://flashydubai.com/hydropolis-under ... -in-dubai/

I hope this one works
Last edited by KRSTYSTLCLR on Tue May 08, 2012 8:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Guardian7347 » Tue May 08, 2012 4:59 am

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote:New Topic.

Dubai's underwater hotel....

Have you seen
http://www.gizmag.com/dubai-water-discu ... ter/22422/

I would love to go to this place. Why hasn't someone come up with this sooner? I want one here in Cali.
:computer: :computer: Stupid web filters! I find the idea very appealling. I'd have to stay there at least once.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Justified » Tue May 08, 2012 5:10 am

I am bored and browsing threads and I tried to look at your link too and there was an Oops! error on the site. I couldn't view what you were mentioning do you have another link?
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby St. Dymphna » Tue May 08, 2012 6:33 am

:yawn:
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby KRSTYSTLCLR » Tue May 08, 2012 8:22 am

Justified wrote:I am bored and browsing threads and I tried to look at your link too and there was an Oops! error on the site. I couldn't view what you were mentioning do you have another link?


Sorry, I think the link was the one to boot the article. I'll remove the link.

Just google Dubai underwater hotel. It's a hotel that can be above water during the day, jacuzzi, pool, heliport, restaurant etc. Then at night it is lowered by hydraulics and you sleep in a partially glassed in room with views of the night time sea life.

Let me see if I can find a pic and post it.

Image

@ Guardian...This would be on my bucket list for sure!
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby KRSTYSTLCLR » Tue May 08, 2012 8:36 am

The new link is good and has more pics. :)
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby JeremyM » Tue May 08, 2012 10:29 am

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote:New Topic.

Dubai's underwater hotel....

Have you seen Image





I would love to go to this place. Why hasn't someone come up with this sooner? I want one here in Cali.

http://flashydubai.com/hydropolis-under ... -in-dubai/

I hope this one works


Interesting, Krsty. Man, Dubai is a rich place, I can imagine how much it would cost to spend even 1 night there- but I wouldn't mind seeing it if I had the money to blow.
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby KRSTYSTLCLR » Tue May 08, 2012 11:14 am

@ Jeremy...Oh my gosh, it say it costs $5000 a night to stay there. If I find out I have terminal cancer or something, it would be my wish to stay one night before I go.

I'm sure it cost a fortune to build. Dubai is like the new hot spot of the world. They are building an amusement park with something like 6 theme areas and from the pic's it looks awesome! Hubby's had 2 opps to go there, but turned them both down...Damn! Next time we are going. :D :ecstatic: Like how I put myself in there? lol
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby Justified » Tue May 08, 2012 11:24 am

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote:
Justified wrote:I am bored and browsing threads and I tried to look at your link too and there was an Oops! error on the site. I couldn't view what you were mentioning do you have another link?


Sorry, I think the link was the one to boot the article. I'll remove the link.

Just google Dubai underwater hotel. It's a hotel that can be above water during the day, jacuzzi, pool, heliport, restaurant etc. Then at night it is lowered by hydraulics and you sleep in a partially glassed in room with views of the night time sea life.

Let me see if I can find a pic and post it.

Image

@ Guardian...This would be on my bucket list for sure!


Works, thanks. That is going to be one of the worlds new wonders. You said it costs $5000 a night, guess it is only for the well off. I would vacation there as well if money was no option. Will it be the new honeymoon locale?
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Re: Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

Postby tropicalheatwave » Tue May 08, 2012 3:31 pm

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote:New Topic.

Dubai's underwater hotel....

Have you seen Image





I would love to go to this place. Why hasn't someone come up with this sooner? I want one here in Cali.

http://flashydubai.com/hydropolis-under ... -in-dubai/

I hope this one works


a cheap rental home by the beach sounds a hell of a lot more appealing than that. :roll:
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