arizona vs. birth control?

[amstevens23]

Right now, Arizona is actually considering a bill that would give your boss the green light to fire you for using birth control. We aren't talking here just about exemptions for religiously affiliated employers like Catholic hospitals and universities. We are talking about authorizing secular, for-profit employers to deny a woman coverage for birth control if the employer doesn't believe that she and her partner should be allowed to have sex without getting pregnant.

https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageServe ... 2748484422

do you think it's a good idea? why or why not?

[Xwikki]

Wrong section!

Birth control? What? That's hilarious. The workplace shouldn't have access to anyone's medical history without their consent. It's their choice to take birth control, not anyone elses. Ahhhhhhh I see stupid peeopleeeeee.

[Guardian7347]

I'm probably missing it somewhere, but I haven't found any reference yet where it says employers could fire employees for using contraceptives outside of wedlock. All I've found is legislation saying that employers should have the right to opt out of covering certain medications for religious reasons. My religious beliefs don't have any such issues with birth control personally, so I don't mind the coverage, but keep in mind that currently in the US, medical coverage by your employer is still OPTIONAL, therefore, they should have the right to not cover something if it goes against their beliefs. I know...some feminazi is going to bring up Cialis and Viagra and how many plans cover that, but MANY plans also cover one elective surgery, like breast implants, and neither Cialis or boob jobs have shit to do with contraceptives, so WHY THE FUCK do people keep bringing that up? Before I get swarmed, I'd just like to reiterate that I PERSONALLY think birth control SHOULD be covered, but I appreciate their right to opt out. A happy compromise may be to continue coverage for employees already working, but allow employers to set coverage however they choose from here on out. That way, prospective employees know to ask about what type of coverage the employer offers, and if BC is covered. That's a selling point in more competitive markets or fields, just like stock options and flex-time.

[St. Dymphna]

Arizona is actually considering a bill that would give your boss the green light to fire you for using birth control

nowhere in the bill does it even suggest this. /aclu

[Guardian7347]

Arizona is actually considering a bill that would give your boss the green light to fire you for using birth control

nowhere in the bill does it even suggest this. /aclu

ACLU = scare tactics and misinformation for political gain.

[KRSTYSTLCLR]

ACLU = scare tactics and misinformation for political gain.

I'm not speaking directly to Guardian, just the comment's about the ACLU.

I logged into the ACLU site and really looked at how they word their pieces and what projects they work on. Personally I don't find their sensationalism any different than the media, both right and left.

The do work exclusively on issues pertaining to the Constitution. So if you really don't know the Constitution, you should try looking it up and doing your own research from time to time. Check case history and dissenting reasoning from Supreme Court Judges to get a view of the issue/ issues(without media bias).

This is the portion of the bill that is in question:
Z. Notwithstanding subsection y of this section, a contract does not fail to meet the requirements of subsection Y of this section if the contract's failure to provide coverage of specific items or services required under subsection Y of this section is because providing or paying for coverage of the specific items or services is contrary to the religious beliefs of the employer, sponsor, issuer, corporation or other entity offering the plan or is because the coverage is contrary to the religious beliefs of the purchaser or beneficiary of the coverage.� If an objection triggers this subsection, a written affidavit shall be filed with the corporation stating the objection.� The corporation shall retain the affidavit for the duration of the contract and any renewals of the contract. This subsection shall not exclude coverage for prescription contraceptive methods ordered by a health care provider WITH prescriptive authority for medical indications other than for contraceptive, abortifacient, abortion or sterilization purposes.� A corporation, employer, sponsor, issuer or other entity offering the plan may state religious beliefs or moral convictions in its affidavit that require the subscriber to first pay for the prescription and then submit a claim to the corporation along with evidence that the prescription is not in whole or in part for a purpose covered by the objection.� A corporation may charge an administrative fee for handling these claims.

*Notice how broad the language is? Is states"services is contrary to the religious beliefs of the employer, sponsor, issuer, corporation or other entity offering the plan.

*** Makes me wonder if Religious organizations plan on getting further into the Health Insurance Industry. This broad language opens the door for it.***
That is just my though.


This is the reiteration of the above....clarification if you will:
An evidence of coverage does not fail to meet the requirements of subsection A of this section if the evidence of coverage's failure to provide coverage of specific items or services required under subsection A of this section is because providing or paying for coverage of the specific items or services is contrary to the religious beliefs of the employer, sponsor, issuer, health care services organization or other entity offering the plan or is because the coverage is contrary to the religious beliefs of the purchaser or beneficiary of the coverage.� If an objection triggers this subsection, a written affidavit shall be filed with the health care services organization stating the objection. The health care services organization shall retain the affidavit for the duration of the coverage and any renewals of the coverage.

This is the wording of the letter that the ACLU sent to it's members to be signed and forwarded to the acting Arizona Senate President.

Dear Arizona Senate President Pierce,
I am writing to urge you to oppose House Bill 2625, which would take away existing protections against discrimination for people who use contraception and would allow employers to deny their employees insurance coverage for contraception. It is an abomination to put a woman in a position where she is forced to choose between her job and birth control.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]

Personally I would question an employers motive in perpetuating this provision of this law should it pass.
#1 Would it discourage women from working for a company that actively refuses contraception (ie, the pill, IUD's) If so, is that discriminating against women? Would they also reject men that want a vasectomy?

#2 This law does state that women have to give an affidavit saying that any hormonal birth control that they receive under the companies insurance plan is not for actual birth control.
"a written affidavit shall be filed with the corporation stating the objection.� The corporation shall retain the affidavit for the duration of the contract and any renewals of the contract. This subsection shall not exclude coverage for prescription contraceptive methods ordered by a health care provider WITH prescriptive authority for medical indications other than for contraceptive, abortifacient, abortion or sterilization purposes."

Which means, that it is very likely that a woman or her physician would have to at some point disclose a health condition (normally very private and protected) to her employer and a chain of command so to say would review the woman's health history and decide if it is for or not for the purpose of contraception.

My other thought about this is that any employer that claims to have a religious reason for opting out using this clause might be shooting himself in the foot in regards to possible increases in medical cost from women that actually do get pregnant, follow through and give birth. I mean, it does cost about a hundred times more to cover a live birth and all the prenatal care than it does to just allow a woman to decide for herself when to get pregnant. So that may be a deterrent for people that are concerned with abuses of this law.

[Brake4Wind]

Excellent report Krsty! I completely agree with your reasoning too! IMO- this is a dicriminating practice and just where is this going? Along these lines of thinking, employers can claim "religious" or "moral" objections to many types of health care coverages. Heck, some religions don't believe in going to doctors at all- purely "faith" healings.

[BLUE]

Yea most of these "faith healings" end up in the ER with me.

I don't think anything like this would pass. Even in fact if that is what the bill would propose. There is such an uproar over "church and state" these days. That ever moving fine line that we all love to argue over. I personally don't want someone telling me what or if I can do things. It is called freedom. Unfortunately some people who think they have better morals than I do, think they need to try and make those decisions tor me. Not going to happen.

[SmileAreSexy]

We'd all just be better off without religion.

heheheheheheh

[KRSTYSTLCLR]

I wonder if all this contraceptive stuff is related to the Health Care Law that was passed. I think it may just be a way to try to exploit the law and force it to be judged unconstitutional. The Supreme Court will be hearing the case this week. (Whether the Healthcare Law is within the Constitution boundaries or not.)

[BLUE]

Oh boy!...religion And the healthcare law.

I'm gonna need some sort of umbrella drink for this one

[Guardian7347]

The do work exclusively on issues pertaining to the Constitution. So if you really don't know the Constitution, you should try looking it up and doing your own research from time to time. Check case history and dissenting reasoning from Supreme Court Judges to get a view of the issue/ issues(without media bias).

I have a pretty good familiarity with my Constitution. I've been known to understand it fairly well. I also do quite a bit of research on my stances, as a general rule of thumb. Occasionally, I'll get caught spouting without knowing all the facts, but I try to keep that to a minimum. As for the ACLU, this isn't one of those times.
1. They DON'T work exclusively on Constitutional issues. They work on issues that concern civil rights at least as much as they do civil liberties.
2. Pay attention to the cases they choose to get involved in. I have yet to see them take on a case in support of the second amendment, despite the fact that D.C.'s draconian gun laws were in clear violation of the 2nd amendment, as were Chicago's. In fact, in recent history, the Supreme court has twice judged that the second amendment is a personal freedom....without the assistance or support of the ACLU. In fact, the majority of their cases tend towards the advancement of minority issues, a just cause to be sure, but not really issues pertaining to the Constitution per se.

The ACLU works tirelessly to use and manipulate the Constitution to support their own goals. They are NOT an equal opportunity organization. When Black Panthers stood outside polling stations with weapons, threatened and even attacked some voters, the ACLU has never once filed on behalf of anyone for this egregious and blatant case of voter intimidation....voting, by the way, being a key civil liberty....something they've pushed for on several other occasions. In short, the ACLU is a dirty, unjust, and politically motivated organization that is in dire need of being wiped out. Conceptually, they're a GREAT idea, but in practice....not so much.

[St. Dymphna]

I personally don't want someone telling me what or if I can do things.

I personally don't want to pay for anyone else's sex life, either.

Unfortunately some people who think they have better morals than I do, think they need to try and make those decisions tor me. Not going to happen.

I can't stand the way you think, but that doesn't mean the way I think is better nor does it mean that I think my moral outlook is better. Perspectives differ, you do realize this?

Now apply that train of thought to morality and then slap yourself in the month, hard.

[BLUE]

St. D you are way too easy.

Here Kitty Kitty

[KRSTYSTLCLR]

Just out of curiosity St. D. ,how do you reason that you would in anyway be paying for BLUEs or anyone elses sex practices?

[SmileAreSexy]

I personally don't want someone telling me what or if I can do things.

I personally don't want to pay for anyone else's sex life, either.

You do realize that contraceptives are used for MORE than just sex... don't you..?

[Bubbydoll]

Now apply that train of thought to morality and then slap yourself in the month, hard.

Just how exactly do you slap yourself in your month? And while being bossy you forgot to include what month you wanted her to slap herself in, this one, or maybe next on April 1st would be good.

[St. Dymphna]

Just out of curiosity St. D. ,how do you reason that you would in anyway be paying for BLUEs or anyone elses sex practices?

Taxes pay for birth control.

You do realize that contraceptives are used for MORE than just sex... don't you..?

Sure I do.

Just how exactly do you slap yourself in your month?

Really, 1 letter?

[Guardian7347]

I personally don't want someone telling me what or if I can do things.

I personally don't want to pay for anyone else's sex life, either.

You do realize that contraceptives are used for MORE than just sex... don't you..?

I DO realize that bc is used for more than JUST the contraceptive purpose that it was designed for originally, but I would be curious to know what percentage of women on contraceptives are using it strictly to regulate their mentral cycle or minimize the symptoms. Of those who supposedly are, how many are minors who are using supposed symptoms to get contraceptives so they can safely have sex?

[St. Dymphna]

if only there were ways to prove this....oh i don't know, some kinda bill that would make a claim legit, maybe through a dr's note or some sort.

huumm

[KRSTYSTLCLR]

Guardian, you would be surprised at how many women use contraceptive pill for other than pregnancy prevention. Some use it for major acne, regulating menstrual cycles, endometriosis, Severe PMS and other hormone balancing needs. I know a 13 year old girl that takes a low dose because she has a condition that causes eggs to stay in the ovaries and it created so much pain and scar tissue that her only hope of having children later in life was to regulate her cycle to prevent more scar tissue from developing. At 13 her ovaries are so damaged by hormone irregularities, that she still may not be able to conceive. I think many women view it as a benefit that the pill helps whatever health problem that they are using it for and getting the benefit of pregnancy prevention.

[KRSTYSTLCLR]

Taxes pay for birth control.

They also pay for mental health programs. Fund our military, build hwy's and infrastructure. I could say I don't believe in going to war on foreign soil or I may not want a portion of my taxes to fund new roads and hwy's etc., but I would have no say where my tax dollars went would I?
Also, I think Blue being a nurse, she probably has pretty good insurance that is not coming out of a tax payers pocket....IDK, I may be wrong.

[St. Dymphna]

They also pay for mental health programs. Fund our military, build hwy's and infrastructure. I could say I don't believe in going to war on foreign soil

How can the mentally ill take care of themselves? By it's very definition, they are mental. Also, it doesn't matter if you believe in war or not, it's national security. Do you want to be invaded?

or I may not want a portion of my taxes to fund new roads and hwy's etc.,

Yeah, maintenance of nation's infrastructure is highly overrated.

but I would have no say where my tax dollars went would I?

It's called an election.

Also, I think Blue being a nurse, she probably has pretty good insurance that is not coming out of a tax payers pocket....IDK, I may be wrong.

Then she's doing the right thing by paying for her own hedonistic lifestyle. You see how that works?

[KRSTYSTLCLR]

@St. D....lol
Point is that everyone has gripes about taxes and what thay are paying for. I think when a whole society gets used to thinks being a certain way and there is a threat of change it becomes over sensationalized. I think this law could go through with some more ammendments and a narrower focus. I may not agree with it passing, but if a strong enough lobby gets behind it....who knows?

[SmileAreSexy]

you do realize that contraceptives are used for
MORE than just sex... don't you..?

I DO realize that bc is used for more than JUST the contraceptive purpose that it was designed for originally, but I would be curious to know what percentage of women on contraceptives are using it strictly to regulate their mentral cycle or minimize the symptoms. Of those who supposedly are, how many are minors who are using supposed symptoms to get contraceptives so they can safely have sex?

SO? lol its not right for kids to have sex so early obviously but I'd rather them have safe sex then unprotected sex.

[Guardian7347]

you do realize that contraceptives are used for
MORE than just sex... don't you..?

I DO realize that bc is used for more than JUST the contraceptive purpose that it was designed for originally, but I would be curious to know what percentage of women on contraceptives are using it strictly to regulate their mentral cycle or minimize the symptoms. Of those who supposedly are, how many are minors who are using supposed symptoms to get contraceptives so they can safely have sex?

SO? lol its not right for kids to have sex so early obviously but I'd rather them have safe sex then unprotected sex.

Allow me to clarify please! I'm NOT by any means opposed to ANYONE using the pill to help with any health condition it may be beneficial for. I'm not opposed to teens who are going to be sexually active using the pill to prevent pregnancy. My point was simply that these health issues are toted as the capstone for why tax money should be used to pay for the pill and ALL institutions should be forced to provide for it, when I haven't seen any numbers that indicate what percentage of women use the pill STRICTLY for a non-contraceptive health issue. If you want to argue it's case based upon it's use as a contraceptive, cool. We all know how effective it is in preventing pregnancy, and that's a solid argument to stand on. We also know that it's used for more than just sex, but is there enough women using it SOLELY for that purpose as to justify the argument? I honestly don't know myself, nor do I wish to make an uneducated guess and risk appearing the bigger asshole for it!

[Guardian7347]

Taxes pay for birth control.

They also pay for mental health programs. Fund our military, build hwy's and infrastructure. I could say I don't believe in going to war on foreign soil or I may not want a portion of my taxes to fund new roads and hwy's etc., but I would have no say where my tax dollars went would I?
Also, I think Blue being a nurse, she probably has pretty good insurance that is not coming out of a tax payers pocket....IDK, I may be wrong.

Constitutionally speaking, the ONLY thing the federal government is authorized to tax the people for IS military expenditures.

[SmileAreSexy]

Constitutionally speaking, the ONLY thing the federal government is authorized to tax the people for IS military expenditures.

You think the constitutions going to stop them from doing whatever they want

Nah but seriously. I dont want anyone running for anything going into office anymore. And I know I'm going to get shit for this, but not even Ron Paul, definatly not him.

[KRSTYSTLCLR]

Constitutionally speaking, the ONLY thing the federal government is authorized to tax the people for IS military expenditures.

Only if you live in the world of the Supremely bias Fox news bubble.

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charte ... cript.html

[Guardian7347]

It appears my memory failed me....this was the part I was focused on, the rest escaped me...

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

I stand corrected. *grumbles* Should have done my homework first! lol