Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

[Nostalgic]

@ bubby
There's not one memory I would erase,
The good and bad memories make me who I am and I'm happy with me.

[Dorn]

@ bubby
There's not one memory I would erase,
The good and bad memories make me who I am and I'm happy with me.

Really? How about HD and Ziggy and similar twats? Bin Laden? Gadhafi? If they were computer files, wouldn't a delete button be nice? Or maybe you've forgotten about them already?

[Brake4Wind]

To erase a memory, I’d say the same as Nostalgic; no deletions. We aren’t saying that we can erase what happened, only the memory of what happened. If we did that, we wouldn’t learn. We might even stop another Ghaddafi/ Bin Laden sooner. As for the mistakes of others that I might repeat, it’s better to learn from their mistakes than to learn the hard way by making them yourself. Is a sucker born every minute? Yep, just saw one leave the car lot with a “no-interest” until June 2012 loan. He didn’t read the fine print that says the car must be paid in full by next June or he is back-charged interest accrued at 30% (and he hasn't the funds).

[tropicalheatwave]

i wouldn't erase any memories. sometimes your darkest moments are a blessing in disguise.
something that scared me and no longer does would be school teachers.

[jojo]

i wouldn't erase any memories. sometimes your darkest moments are a blessing in disguise.

I never feel a dark moment to be any kind of blessing only painful.

How can you make them a blessing, explain?

I looked through my bf's cookies, they were all erased, nothing to see, so I asked him if he feels his sexuality has shifted and he replied no.



If a woman is pregnant and her boyfriend or husband punches her or kicks her in her stomach and she loses the baby, should he be charged with taking a life?

[Dorn]

If a woman is pregnant and her boyfriend or husband punches her or kicks her in her stomach and she loses the baby, should he be charged with taking a life?

I do.

Then again, this is a far more complicated issue than one may imagine, since it requires a definition of the status of life tied to the "child in utero." It became an issue in 2004 (here are the House and Senate votes) as pro-choice Democrats opposed declaring a zygote, embryo, or fetus a victim of violence. In the end, however, the legislation passed and was signed into law by George W. Bush.

Since the "child in utero" is only considered a live human being after a certain amount of weeks, it affects the abortion issue in ways that may limit the choice at a later point in time. That is why the legislation ultimately needed to be free of any language relevant to abortion, or the imposition of the death penalty for any such crime.

[tropicalheatwave]

I never feel a dark moment to be any kind of blessing only painful.

of course its painful.

How can you make them a blessing, explain?

i don't know. i never made anything a blessing. it just happens. because john walsh's son got murdered there is america's most wanted taking thousands of criminals off the streets. because bruce lee spent 6 months in the hospital, he came up with a best-seller book reaching out to millions of people. if christopher wallace never went to prison he would have never become one of the greatest gangsta rappers of all time. i don't watch alot of t.v. or read much so this is the best i came up with but i know i've heard many stories of people having drug problems or almost dieing from joining a gang and later reach out to people with the same problem therefore saving lives.

in my experience i have tried many times to fit in with society only to constantly be hurt and rejected. in order for me to fit in i must constantly be something i'm not. from this i learned independance. our dark moments aren't really so dark but our minds make them dark. just look at your own thoughts.

[jojo]

If a woman is pregnant and her boyfriend or husband punches her or kicks her in her stomach and she loses the baby, should he be charged with taking a life?

I do.

Then again, this is a far more complicated issue than one may imagine, since it requires a definition of the status of life tied to the "child in utero." It became an issue in 2004 (here are the House and Senate votes) as pro-choice Democrats opposed declaring a zygote, embryo, or fetus a victim of violence. In the end, however, the legislation passed and was signed into law by George W. Bush.

Since the "child in utero" is only considered a live human being after a certain amount of weeks, it affects the abortion issue in ways that may limit the choice at a later point in time. That is why the legislation ultimately needed to be free of any language relevant to abortion, or the imposition of the death penalty for any such crime.

I do as well.

To me it is murder by a parent. I do not care about the logistics of it, to me it is a new life that was taken. I think some judges, law makers, officials are the issue too. Letting these types of men get off to easily. Isn't just a domestic issue, is a murder issue.

[jojo]

I never feel a dark moment to be any kind of blessing only painful.

of course its painful.

How can you make them a blessing, explain?

i don't know. i never made anything a blessing. it just happens. because john walsh's son got murdered there is america's most wanted taking thousands of criminals off the streets. because bruce lee spent 6 months in the hospital, he came up with a best-seller book reaching out to millions of people. if christopher wallace never went to prison he would have never become one of the greatest gangsta rappers of all time. i don't watch alot of t.v. or read much so this is the best i came up with but i know i've heard many stories of people having drug problems or almost dieing from joining a gang and later reach out to people with the same problem therefore saving lives.

in my experience i have tried many times to fit in with society only to constantly be hurt and rejected. in order for me to fit in i must constantly be something i'm not. from this i learned independance. our dark moments aren't really so dark but our minds make them dark. just look at your own thoughts.

I see your reasoning now, thanks for the explanation.

You using John Walsh is a good example.
Most people after a horrific crime like that almost never recover to go on to make changes like he did and a few others. Inner strength.

Why do you feel the need to conform to society and that society will reject you if you do not. Isn't being an individual a good thing?

I make things much worse worrying about them, they take on a different life because of my own fears.

[Brake4Wind]

I don’t feel a great need to conform. Maybe because I think most of what and who defines ‘society’ is just a constant/ over-blown sales pitch peddling substandard products and trying to brain-wash the general public. Don’t worry Jojo; who cares about being snubbed by a bunch of sheep that end up on the dinner plate?

[tropicalheatwave]

Why do you feel the need to conform to society

well you need to, to an extent. you need to communicate with people and deal with them. i'm not going to be a hermit.

and that society will reject you if you do not.

thats just my experience.

Isn't being an individual a good thing?

that depends on the individual.

[JessicaBunny]

yay, thanks, Dorn. i agree it should be legalized too. . . a woman has a right to do with her body as she wishes, if she is legal age. worse crimes going on, then processing women for sex & men who cheat on their wives. if the women know the risks for disease and abuse, & want that occupation it shouldn't be a crime. . . would like what they have in Holland, red light districts in city areas, so women do not have to walk the streets. same as areas of cities have strip clubs, so why not? should have a more liberal view.

I totally agree with this. Women should be able to do whatever they please with their bodies if they are of age. Same with abortion. Abortion should never be illegal because it is up to the woman, and to have MEN speak against women when they can't even have children and would never know the experience is sickening and wrong as much as the level of wrongness they view on abortion itself.

In conclusion, I should be able to do whatever I damn well please when Im an adult. Just my view on it.

same here. . . women's bodies are theirs to do with as they see fit. the religious base is up in arms mostly about abortion, those crazies who picket clinics & even bomb them. yeah they are religious more the kind that want to keep women down in this world, i don't think those people value any one elses life or freedom, it is an act.

Jeff i don't like when people call their kids names in public to shame them. whatever names they use, i don't like that.

How would you describe your future in three words?

Promising
Joyful
Content

Question : what age do you think people should be to babysit?

12 or 13 years old.

[JessicaBunny]

seeing someone getting beaten & attempted raped walking home. i could only call police, i felt helpless. i wish at the time i was a big burly guy & could beat the hell out of the guy, i yelled at him that i called the police. . . i felt useless & sad for the other person being hurt.

other question bubbydoll had the answer would be: flying, it used to scare me when younger, doesn't anymore.

Jojo. . . yes, if a guy causes the miscarriage through violence he needs to be charged and booked for a crime.

[Guardian7347]

yay, thanks, Dorn. i agree it should be legalized too. . . a woman has a right to do with her body as she wishes, if she is legal age. worse crimes going on, then processing women for sex & men who cheat on their wives. if the women know the risks for disease and abuse, & want that occupation it shouldn't be a crime. . . would like what they have in Holland, red light districts in city areas, so women do not have to walk the streets. same as areas of cities have strip clubs, so why not? should have a more liberal view.

I totally agree with this. Women should be able to do whatever they please with their bodies if they are of age. Same with abortion. Abortion should never be illegal because it is up to the woman, and to have MEN speak against women when they can't even have children and would never know the experience is sickening and wrong as much as the level of wrongness they view on abortion itself.

In conclusion, I should be able to do whatever I damn well please when Im an adult. Just my view on it.

same here. . . women's bodies are theirs to do with as they see fit. the religious base is up in arms mostly about abortion, those crazies who picket clinics & even bomb them. yeah they are religious more the kind that want to keep women down in this world, i don't think those people value any one elses life or freedom, it is an act.

I agree with the idea of legalizing prostitution. As Jessica said, if they know the risks, it's their choice. I believe it would make it safer for women as well. The Bunny Ranch doesn't seem to have an issue with drugs and violence, which can only lead me to believe that it would reduce crime, and free up precious jail space for real criminals. Unfortunately, I must also do some disagreeing here.

In conclusion, I should be able to do whatever I damn well please when Im an adult.

You know how that sounds, don't you? No one is allowed to do whatever they damn well please, regardless of age. There's always someone telling you what you can and can't do. That is one thing you will have to get accustomed to I'm afraid. By your logic, since women can't pee on the side of a building, they have no right telling me that I can't do it. I detest the tunnel-vision of this statement here "women's bodies are theirs to do with as they see fit". Ok, so a man's body is his to do with as he sees fit as well, right? What if he sees fit to use that body to rape. It's his body, right? Ahhh...here is where everyone screams about it's different because he's affecting someone else's life. My rhetort to that would be "So how is that different from abortion"? Just saying.

[jojo]

I don’t feel a great need to conform. Maybe because I think most of what and who defines ‘society’ is just a constant/ over-blown sales pitch peddling substandard products and trying to brain-wash the general public. Don’t worry Jojo; who cares about being snubbed by a bunch of sheep that end up on the dinner plate?

I love how you said that!

Baa to the flockers. Individuality should also be a plus.

Why do you feel the need to conform to society

well you need to, to an extent. you need to communicate with people and deal with them. i'm not going to be a hermit.

and that society will reject you if you do not.

thats just my experience.

Isn't being an individual a good thing?

that depends on the individual.

I wouldn't want you or anyone to be a hermit, sometimes solitude is helpful imo.

What do you mean depends on the individual?

Do you mean if that have good or bad intentions towards others?

[jojo]

yay, thanks, Dorn. i agree it should be legalized too. . . a woman has a right to do with her body as she wishes, if she is legal age. worse crimes going on, then processing women for sex & men who cheat on their wives. if the women know the risks for disease and abuse, & want that occupation it shouldn't be a crime. . . would like what they have in Holland, red light districts in city areas, so women do not have to walk the streets. same as areas of cities have strip clubs, so why not? should have a more liberal view.

I totally agree with this. Women should be able to do whatever they please with their bodies if they are of age. Same with abortion. Abortion should never be illegal because it is up to the woman, and to have MEN speak against women when they can't even have children and would never know the experience is sickening and wrong as much as the level of wrongness they view on abortion itself.

In conclusion, I should be able to do whatever I damn well please when Im an adult. Just my view on it.

same here. . . women's bodies are theirs to do with as they see fit. the religious base is up in arms mostly about abortion, those crazies who picket clinics & even bomb them. yeah they are religious more the kind that want to keep women down in this world, i don't think those people value any one elses life or freedom, it is an act.

I agree with the idea of legalizing prostitution. As Jessica said, if they know the risks, it's their choice. I believe it would make it safer for women as well. The Bunny Ranch doesn't seem to have an issue with drugs and violence, which can only lead me to believe that it would reduce crime, and free up precious jail space for real criminals. Unfortunately, I must also do some disagreeing here.

In conclusion, I should be able to do whatever I damn well please when Im an adult.

You know how that sounds, don't you? No one is allowed to do whatever they damn well please, regardless of age. There's always someone telling you what you can and can't do. That is one thing you will have to get accustomed to I'm afraid. By your logic, since women can't pee on the side of a building, they have no right telling me that I can't do it. I detest the tunnel-vision of this statement here "women's bodies are theirs to do with as they see fit". Ok, so a man's body is his to do with as he sees fit as well, right? What if he sees fit to use that body to rape. It's his body, right? Ahhh...here is where everyone screams about it's different because he's affecting someone else's life. My rhetort to that would be "So how is that different from abortion"? Just saying.

Not to speak for JessicaBunny and SmileAreSexy, but to speak as another female only.

I think a woman of age, 18+ and out from under her parents roof can do as she see fits with her own body.

That means, if she wants to get pregnant, have an abortion, gain weight, lose weight, get a tattoo, get piercings, even cutting herself and other things.

Those are things she is doing to herself, no one else. If there is a willing partner involved she should tell him she isn't ready to be a mom and about the impending abortion.

But it is still HER choice, not his to make.

Your example is a man harming another with his body and these 2 girls I believe were not thinking that kind of scenario at all.

[Brake4Wind]

Baa to the flockers.

Like that silly movie- 'Meet the Fockers'!
Where the nerdy guy tries to gain the approval of his girl friend's demented father.

[Nostalgic]

@ bubby
There's not one memory I would erase,
The good and bad memories make me who I am and I'm happy with me.

Really? How about HD and Ziggy and similar twats? Bin Laden? Gadhafi? If they were computer files, wouldn't a delete button be nice? Or maybe you've forgotten about them already?

Lol, yes I would love to forget all of them. A delete button would be great.
I was more thinking of life experiences like relationships, friends etc.

[Nostalgic]

On the prostitution issue, NZ didn't have any problems with it becoming legal. The only discussions I remember was about tgem having their pay taxed. Not many people really cared except a few extremist weirdos.

[SharA2]

I do not like men I date to tell me what I can and cannot do with myself -- like cutting hair or wearing makeup or getting a piercing. I also do not like to tell another person who I am dating what they can or cannot do with theirs either, the only except is where they can and cannot put their penis while we date Infidelity is a big deal.

[physco kid]

just wanted to ask who do you think you are outta the cups

[Nostalgic]

I'm the third one in this pic

[Guardian7347]

yay, thanks, Dorn. i agree it should be legalized too. . . a woman has a right to do with her body as she wishes, if she is legal age. worse crimes going on, then processing women for sex & men who cheat on their wives. if the women know the risks for disease and abuse, & want that occupation it shouldn't be a crime. . . would like what they have in Holland, red light districts in city areas, so women do not have to walk the streets. same as areas of cities have strip clubs, so why not? should have a more liberal view.

I totally agree with this. Women should be able to do whatever they please with their bodies if they are of age. Same with abortion. Abortion should never be illegal because it is up to the woman, and to have MEN speak against women when they can't even have children and would never know the experience is sickening and wrong as much as the level of wrongness they view on abortion itself.

In conclusion, I should be able to do whatever I damn well please when Im an adult. Just my view on it.

same here. . . women's bodies are theirs to do with as they see fit. the religious base is up in arms mostly about abortion, those crazies who picket clinics & even bomb them. yeah they are religious more the kind that want to keep women down in this world, i don't think those people value any one elses life or freedom, it is an act.

I agree with the idea of legalizing prostitution. As Jessica said, if they know the risks, it's their choice. I believe it would make it safer for women as well. The Bunny Ranch doesn't seem to have an issue with drugs and violence, which can only lead me to believe that it would reduce crime, and free up precious jail space for real criminals. Unfortunately, I must also do some disagreeing here.

In conclusion, I should be able to do whatever I damn well please when Im an adult.

You know how that sounds, don't you? No one is allowed to do whatever they damn well please, regardless of age. There's always someone telling you what you can and can't do. That is one thing you will have to get accustomed to I'm afraid. By your logic, since women can't pee on the side of a building, they have no right telling me that I can't do it. I detest the tunnel-vision of this statement here "women's bodies are theirs to do with as they see fit". Ok, so a man's body is his to do with as he sees fit as well, right? What if he sees fit to use that body to rape. It's his body, right? Ahhh...here is where everyone screams about it's different because he's affecting someone else's life. My rhetort to that would be "So how is that different from abortion"? Just saying.

Not to speak for JessicaBunny and SmileAreSexy, but to speak as another female only.

I think a woman of age, 18+ and out from under her parents roof can do as she see fits with her own body.

That means, if she wants to get pregnant, have an abortion, gain weight, lose weight, get a tattoo, get piercings, even cutting herself and other things.

Those are things she is doing to herself, no one else. If there is a willing partner involved she should tell him she isn't ready to be a mom and about the impending abortion.

But it is still HER choice, not his to make.

Your example is a man harming another with his body and these 2 girls I believe were not thinking that kind of scenario at all.

First, I apologize if I came across a little too aggressively. I certainly didn't intend to, especially with either one of these ladies. It's not the topic either, it's just me right now. Normally I'm pretty calm. It's just that I tend to establish a more aggressive mindset while deployed, for obvious reasons, and it's not always easy to switch it off. Bear with me.

I agree that these two ladies didn't consider this type of scenario, that was the point. To demonstrate a senario using the same parameters they believe they are entitled to use, where those parameters are not only unacceptable, but illegal. Hopefully to give some perspective. I can't say I'm completely against abortion in all scenarios, but I'm certainly not a supporter of it. I don't know the exact moment an egg and sperm become a life, and neither does anyone else, so I can't say I have all the answers on this. What I DO know is that at some point, that baby has it's own heartbeat, and if it has a heartbeat, it's alive. I also know that at some point the baby starts moving around in there. Independent movement, especially coupled with a heartbeat, is a great sign of life. If your unconscious, a doctor can do a sternal rub to check and see if you can still respond to stimuli. That will let them know if you are brain-dead right off the bat. No brain activity, no response. Another thing I know is that the womb is not only an incubator, but it's a life-support system for that child. Let's say a loved one got into a horrific car accident and was badly injured. They were placed on life-support to help them breathe. Doc thinks they'll be ok with time, but right now they need that ventilator and IV nutrients to help them heal. What would you do? Tell the dr, "I'm not ready to take care of them doc, go ahead and unplug 'em"? No, because it's illegal for one. Yet that's what you do during an abortion. You unplug a child from their life-support.

To abort means to terminate, and to terminate means to bring to an end. If life hasn't begun, then how can you end it?

The worst though is late-term and partial-birth abortions. Partial-births are where they actually induce labor, wait for the head to start crowning, then take a drill to it's skull and make mashed-potatoes of it's brain, killing the child...oh sorry, rendering the fetus non-viable. That's a nightmare image if I ever imagined one. Late term abortions are done when the child could actually survive outside the womb, and in a disturbing number of cases, has. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2054648/Abortion-clinic-workers-Philadelphia-admit-killing-spree.htmlThink about that. Think about a crying, helpless newborn having it's spine cut because it had the audacity to survive being aborted.There is a book out there, written by a woman who was actually a late-term abortion, who survived the abortion, and lived her life. But according to your arguments ladies, an abortion only affects the woman having it. That's not the truth though.

I think a woman of age, 18+ and out from under her parents roof can do as she see fits with her own body.

I couldn't agree more.

Those are things she is doing to herself, no one else.

Not even close. An abortion is the worst kind of rape. You force your will onto another living being who is utterly defenseless, and take everything they ever will be away from them before they even have a chance to try.

I'll get off my soap-box now!

[jojo]

No need to explain your tone or perceived tone to me, I don't mind. Thanks for serving and protecting.

I was only speaking on what the other two girls were not around to discuss. I did send SmileAreSexy a message to check the thread.

But maybe just maybe those two girls think as I do. That it isn't seen as a life in those early stages.

Some think it is, such as you. But plenty do not.

I know those against abortion find that thought to be selfish, I can live with them thinking that.

Yes, it affects the woman having the abortion, before and probably years after, for most it is not an easy choice.

[jojo]

just wanted to ask who do you think you are outta the cups

I am cup number 3.

But I am positive it is lemonade so I will drink it.

[SmileAreSexy]

yay, thanks, Dorn. i agree it should be legalized too. . . a woman has a right to do with her body as she wishes, if she is legal age. worse crimes going on, then processing women for sex & men who cheat on their wives. if the women know the risks for disease and abuse, & want that occupation it shouldn't be a crime. . . would like what they have in Holland, red light districts in city areas, so women do not have to walk the streets. same as areas of cities have strip clubs, so why not? should have a more liberal view.

I totally agree with this. Women should be able to do whatever they please with their bodies if they are of age. Same with abortion. Abortion should never be illegal because it is up to the woman, and to have MEN speak against women when they can't even have children and would never know the experience is sickening and wrong as much as the level of wrongness they view on abortion itself.

In conclusion, I should be able to do whatever I damn well please when Im an adult. Just my view on it.

same here. . . women's bodies are theirs to do with as they see fit. the religious base is up in arms mostly about abortion, those crazies who picket clinics & even bomb them. yeah they are religious more the kind that want to keep women down in this world, i don't think those people value any one elses life or freedom, it is an act.

I agree with the idea of legalizing prostitution. As Jessica said, if they know the risks, it's their choice. I believe it would make it safer for women as well. The Bunny Ranch doesn't seem to have an issue with drugs and violence, which can only lead me to believe that it would reduce crime, and free up precious jail space for real criminals. Unfortunately, I must also do some disagreeing here.

In conclusion, I should be able to do whatever I damn well please when Im an adult.

You know how that sounds, don't you? No one is allowed to do whatever they damn well please, regardless of age. There's always someone telling you what you can and can't do. That is one thing you will have to get accustomed to I'm afraid. By your logic, since women can't pee on the side of a building, they have no right telling me that I can't do it. I detest the tunnel-vision of this statement here "women's bodies are theirs to do with as they see fit". Ok, so a man's body is his to do with as he sees fit as well, right? What if he sees fit to use that body to rape. It's his body, right? Ahhh...here is where everyone screams about it's different because he's affecting someone else's life. My rhetort to that would be "So how is that different from abortion"? Just saying.

Well holy crap not like that obviously! What I meant by the "damn well please" thing, I meant it on the subject, not literally break all the rules and do whatever you want! I mean c'mon, did you really have to insult my logic while you were at it? If people did whatever they wanted, life would literally be hell on earth.

Jeez man. I don't need this -__-'

[SmileAreSexy]

An abortion is the worst kind of rape. You force your will onto another living being who is utterly defenseless, and take everything they ever will be away from them before they even have a chance to try.

I'll get off my soap-box now!

Well if that mother is 13 and has the high possibility of dying, she should have the right for an abortion. It's not even remotely a baby the first week or two, its basically a cell. It's not a living thing, thats not taking a life.

Also, think about this, if a woman who is a drug addicted, alcoholic with an abusive husband/boyfriend, that child will have nothing. That child may be raped, abused, and an addict before the age of 5 years old. Maybe even killed by then. This happens, in case you didn't know. To me, that's worse than death.

Yes, maybe the woman will have to go through her life thinking about what she could have had, but better that then having the kid go through a life in poverty, basically tortured everyday.

[physco kid]

lols at jojo

@ SmileAreSexy heh not meaning to butt in convo but i do agree then that child wouldnt become another one bound for doing the same thing cause if you begin a chain such as that it may not end good. (on the part of 2nd scenario)

[Guardian7347]

An abortion is the worst kind of rape. You force your will onto another living being who is utterly defenseless, and take everything they ever will be away from them before they even have a chance to try.

I'll get off my soap-box now!

Well if that mother is 13 and has the high possibility of dying, she should have the right for an abortion. It's not even remotely a baby the first week or two, its basically a cell. It's not a living thing, thats not taking a life.

1. With modern medicine, the abortion itself poses a greater risk to the mother's life via a perforated womb than the unborn child does, so that scenario is out the window. 2. No one has an abortion at two weeks. There's nothing to abort. In case you didn't know, an abortion requires a target large enough that a blender looking device can grind it up and vacuum it out. I have no issues with the morning after pill, which more closely resembles what you're talking about. 3. As I said, I don't know exactly when life starts, and neither do you, but at two weeks, it's more than just a cell, it's just not recognizable as a human baby yet.

Also, think about this, if a woman who is a drug addicted, alcoholic with an abusive husband/boyfriend, that child will have nothing. That child may be raped, abused, and an addict before the age of 5 years old. Maybe even killed by then. This happens, in case you didn't know. To me, that's worse than death.

Yes, maybe the woman will have to go through her life thinking about what she could have had, but better that then having the kid go through a life in poverty, basically tortured everyday.

Do you not realize how many great people not only survived situations similar to what you described, but excelled because of it? Answers.com: "Many famous people were abused as children. Perhaps most famously, Oprah Winfrey revealed that she was repeatedly molested by members of her own family. Many professional sportsmen that I know of were abused as children as was pop star Darren Hayes. The Irish singer Sinead O'Connor also suffered years of abuse. Abuse, no matter how extreme does not need to be the end of your life. Many people who were abused as children don't go on to be famous but do work with charities that help other suffering people, and go on to live happy lives. Others include Axl Rose singer of Guns N' Roses, Mackenzie Phillips, Tom Petty, David Ruffin, etc." Christina Aguilera is another. Look at your siggy. It was written by a man who grew up in a scenario you describe as being worthy of aborting. Oprah. How much good has she done for others? And this was just a lazy search. If I really tried, I'll wager I could find at least two cases of powerful, influential world personas who fit closely to your parameters of a child that should have been aborted.

More importantly, who are YOU to say what that child will have? Who are you to judge? That child may be the trigger that woman needs to get out of her situation. That child may turn that woman's life around. This happens a lot more than you seem to realize. I find it humorous that you would rather rob the child of any chance at life than risk it being mistreated. I'm just glad you weren't there when my mother was pregnant. She was 15 when she got pregnant with me. Drank. Smoked pot. So did my father. They were dirt poor, living below the poverty line, and he physically abused my mother. I guess my mom should have aborted my sorry ass, huh? Better that than I get a chance to grow up and help people, right?

[Guardian7347]

lols at jojo

@ SmileAreSexy heh not meaning to butt in convo but i do agree then that child wouldnt become another one bound for doing the same thing cause if you begin a chain such as that it may not end good. (on the part of 2nd scenario)

no worries, you're more than welcome to input your thoughts as well.

[SmileAreSexy]

I'm sorry if I'm rude Guardian, but to have a man tell me what I should do with my body when he himself will never know what it is like to give birth to a child is total and utter bullshit and I will no longer have this conversation with you seeing as it is getting no where.

I don't know what you think your trying to get across but please, don't poke your nose into business you have no right in arguing about.

[SharA2]

I am a bit wish washy on this particular issue-- I cannot say with all certainty if I would ever have an abortion or not.

Most scenarios in my mind are not plausible for me right now, I am not an underage teen, or a marriage woman fearful that my husband will leave me because my lover has impregnated me, nor am I an older woman who has become pregnant and could possibly die if I go through with the pregnancy. The only way I may possibly consider an abortion is if I am sexually assault and from that become pregnant-- I know I could carry that baby full term and then have them adopted out. And that would be the right choice to make, but since it has not happened, I cannot say what I would do. Maybe the idea of carrying a baby of rape would become to overwhelming for me.
So I can see both sides.

Kudos to Guardian for being the only male on this forum to even discuss this topic, where are all the other men of dream moods? Why are not more women for that matter having an opinion on this topic-- I only see SmileAreSexy, jojo, psycho kid participating in the discussion.

[Dorn]

Kudos to Guardian for being the only male on this forum to even discuss this topic, where are all the other men of dream moods?

I addressed it indirectly in the "Unborn Victims of Violence Act" above, where I touched on the subject of declaring victimhood to a zygote or embryo. (And I wanted to grant it more action before I stepped in, as there is a tendency among members to shy away from subjects that become all too technical.)

The legal foundation for abortion is found in the writing of the 14th Amendment, Section 1, to the U.S. Constitution:

[...] No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law [---]

However, this is also the source of the anti-abortion stance, which is problematic. Is the embryo a "person" under legal protection, that is, possessing the right to life; or, does the liberty granted to the mother, also known as the "right to privacy," abrogate it? So which is it, life or liberty/choice?

Roe v. Wade says liberty. The decision holds that an embryo (up to 7 months old) is not a "person" under legal protection, and that any one of the 50 states prohibiting abortion is acting in violation of constitutional rights. I personally find the decision to be undemocratic as it implements a federal standard upon all states, regardless of the will of the people (which, for instance, is the case for the death penalty).

In other words, I would favor Roe v. Wade being overturned and the ultimate responsibility referred back to each state legislature.

[Nostalgic]

People should be able to chose abortion but should have counciling before hand including the father.
Girls who use it as a regular form of contraception should be made to give the babies up for adoption if they don't wish to have them.

What about children who are down syndrome. They do tests now and you can choose to abort.

[parousia]

Is THIS site full of filthy liberal godless heathens, or intellectually giants?
Discuss.

[Guardian7347]

I'm sorry if I'm rude Guardian, but to have a man tell me what I should do with my body when he himself will never know what it is like to give birth to a child is total and utter bullshit and I will no longer have this conversation with you seeing as it is getting no where.

I don't know what you think your trying to get across but please, don't poke your nose into business you have no right in arguing about.

I don't know what you think your trying to get across but please, don't poke your nose into business you have no right in arguing about

What an ignorant and self-centered attitude you display! You seem to forget that the mother doesn't procreate asexually. Half of the genetic material that the child is comprised of comes from the male. This means he has just as much say in things involving that child as you. Don't think that just because you happen to be holding the golden goose it means you get to keep all the eggs. Sure, I will never physically give birth to a child. So what. You will never know what it's like to pee standing up either, but that doesn't stop you from telling me to put the damn seat up on the toilet now does it?

I'm sorry if I'm rude Guardian, but to have a man tell me what I should do with my body when he himself will never know what it is like to give birth to a child is total and utter bullshit and I will no longer have this conversation with you seeing as it is getting no where.

Ok, let me ask this then. Have you ever personally given birth to a child? Because if you haven't, then by your own logic, you have no right arguing about this. I, on the other hand, was with my wife through the whole pregnancy, was present at my son's birth, and have been there his whole life, watching him grow and caring for him. By way of comparison, I have far more rights to discuss this topic than you do. Hopefully you grow up and realize there's more to life than just your narrow-minded, "me"-centric viewpoint.

[Guardian7347]

Kudos to Guardian for being the only male on this forum to even discuss this topic, where are all the other men of dream moods?

I addressed it indirectly in the "Unborn Victims of Violence Act" above, where I touched on the subject of declaring victimhood to a zygote or embryo. (And I wanted to grant it more action before I stepped in, as there is a tendency among members to shy away from subjects that become all too technical.)

The legal foundation for abortion is found in the writing of the 14th Amendment, Section 1, to the U.S. Constitution:

[...] No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law [---]

However, this is also the source of the anti-abortion stance, which is problematic. Is the embryo a "person" under legal protection, that is, possessing the right to life; or, does the liberty granted to the mother, also known as the "right to privacy," abrogate it? So which is it, life or liberty/choice?

Roe v. Wade says liberty. The decision holds that an embryo (up to 7 months old) is not a "person" under legal protection, and that any one of the 50 states prohibiting abortion is acting in violation of constitutional rights. I personally find the decision to be undemocratic as it implements a federal standard upon all states, regardless of the will of the people (which, for instance, is the case for the death penalty).

In other words, I would favor Roe v. Wade being overturned and the ultimate responsibility referred back to each state legislature.

My views are very personal views. They are how I feel for myself. When it comes to legislating abortion, I don't believe ANY government level has a right to tell someone what's right for them. If ANY level should be allowed to make that decision though, I believe it shouldn't go higher than the state.

[Dorn]

When it comes to legislating abortion, I don't believe ANY government level has a right to tell someone what's right for them. If ANY level should be allowed to make that decision though, I believe it shouldn't go higher than the state.

The problem is related to an interpretation of the constitutional passage. The right to life, liberty, and property--which in each instance the federal government is sworn to uphold and protect without the infringement of state legislature--may be interpreted in many different ways. And as there is no clear consensus on the issue, which is also the case with the death penalty, I would much prefer a democratic solution in which Americans are able to "vote with their feet."

[SmileAreSexy]

I'm sorry if I'm rude Guardian, but to have a man tell me what I should do with my body when he himself will never know what it is like to give birth to a child is total and utter bullshit and I will no longer have this conversation with you seeing as it is getting no where.

I don't know what you think your trying to get across but please, don't poke your nose into business you have no right in arguing about.

I don't know what you think your trying to get across but please, don't poke your nose into business you have no right in arguing about

What an ignorant and self-centered attitude you display! You seem to forget that the mother doesn't procreate asexually. Half of the genetic material that the child is comprised of comes from the male. This means he has just as much say in things involving that child as you. Don't think that just because you happen to be holding the golden goose it means you get to keep all the eggs. Sure, I will never physically give birth to a child. So what. You will never know what it's like to pee standing up either, but that doesn't stop you from telling me to put the damn seat up on the toilet now does it?

I'm sorry if I'm rude Guardian, but to have a man tell me what I should do with my body when he himself will never know what it is like to give birth to a child is total and utter bullshit and I will no longer have this conversation with you seeing as it is getting no where.

Ok, let me ask this then. Have you ever personally given birth to a child? Because if you haven't, then by your own logic, you have no right arguing about this. I, on the other hand, was with my wife through the whole pregnancy, was present at my son's birth, and have been there his whole life, watching him grow and caring for him. By way of comparison, I have far more rights to discuss this topic than you do. Hopefully you grow up and realize there's more to life than just your narrow-minded, "me"-centric viewpoint.

The father of the child having a right to say whether or not to abort the kid (18 or older of course; and if it wasn't rape or anything like that) IS somewhere you have a place in arguing about. No I have never myself had a child, but if I want to get an abortion than that should be my choice. Imagine if your 12 year old daughter was raped, you are seriously telling me you would make her go through with that? You cling on to my words too much and take them way too far.

And how dare you tell me that I'm self centered and narrow minded. All I've ever done my entire life is take care of people. Do I ever get anybody caring about me? Of course not! I'm that person everybody confides in but never does anything about because their too caught up in their own problems to care. I can't even get my own mother to stop and listen to me anymore. But you know what? I still listen to everybody because I know I'm making someone else feel good instead of myself. Maybe it does drive me nuts, but I get over it. I don't really know what life has in store for me, because it hasn't started yet. Your not taking me seriously because I'm younger, and I can see that and understand it, and you've had far more experience than I have. However I don't understand how you can vote for something that goes against my rights, but I'm tired of arguing, so I'm going to let it go.

Maybe this response does sound like gloating, but I've held that in for far too long. I just can't stand that "self centered" label you've made for me, because that is far from the truth.

[Dorn]

Girls who use it as a regular form of contraception should be made to give the babies up for adoption if they don't wish to have them.

How does one define such a law without creating further difficulties?

What about children who are down syndrome. They do tests now and you can choose to abort.

I think that question is quite uncontroversial and extends to physical handicaps as well. However, there are women who have made the decision to follow through with such pregnancies, holding the sanctity and equality of life as premier principles, and I wouldn't want to depreciate such tough choices.

[St. Dymphna]

Maybe this response does sound like gloating, but I've held that in for far too long. I just can't stand that "self centered" label you've made for me, because that is far from the truth.

I think you're? neato.

[Nostalgic]

Girls who use it as a regular form of contraception should be made to give the babies up for adoption if they don't wish to have them.

How does one define such a law without creating further difficulties?

What about children who are down syndrome. They do tests now and you can choose to abort.

I think that question is quite uncontroversial and extends to physical handicaps as well. However, there are women who have made the decision to follow through with such pregnancies, holding the sanctity and equality of life as premier principles, and I wouldn't want to depreciate such tough choices.

I don't think you can define a law like that without difficulties.
I still think those girls are wrong though.

As for down syndrome, would be a hard choice. My cousin rejected her baby at first but looks after him now.If the testing was done in sure she would have aborted.

[jojo]

Wanted to add some abortions points that I agree with myself:

Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when a fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity as it cannot exist outside her womb.

The concept of personhood is different from the concept of human life. Human life occurs at conception, but fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization are also human lives and those not implanted are routinely thrown away. Is this murder, and if not, then how is abortion murder?

In the case of rape or incest, forcing a woman made pregnant by this violent act would cause further psychological harm to the victim. Often a woman is too afraid to speak up or is unaware she is pregnant, thus the morning after pill is ineffective in these situations.

The ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights. Take away her reproductive choice and you step onto a slippery slope. If the government can force a woman to continue a pregnancy, what about forcing a woman to use contraception or undergo sterilization?

People can agree or take issue with these points. Wanted them noted.

[jojo]

What about children who are down syndrome. They do tests now and you can choose to abort.

I find that thought horrible and shameful. Didn't know people actual did that sort of thing.

It is about the women/father to be's wanting a perfect child, and won't accept anything lesser.

Is not about just not wanting a baby, they don't want a flawed baby.

[Nostalgic]

What about children who are down syndrome. They do tests now and you can choose to abort.

I find that thought horrible and shameful. Didn't know people actual did that sort of thing.

It is about the women/father to be's wanting a perfect child, and won't accept anything lesser.

Is not about just not wanting a baby, they don't want a flawed baby.

I can understand that. I think some people worry about financial strain as well. Here in France I don't think it's a big concern but in other countries. Sometimes they have weak hearts etc and need a lot of medical attention.

I really don't know what I would do in that situation. I would like to think I would keep the baby but who knows until your in that position.

[Nostalgic]

Wanted to add some abortions points that I agree with myself:

Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when a fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity as it cannot exist outside her womb.

The concept of personhood is different from the concept of human life. Human life occurs at conception, but fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization are also human lives and those not implanted are routinely thrown away. Is this murder, and if not, then how is abortion murder?

In the case of rape or incest, forcing a woman made pregnant by this violent act would cause further psychological harm to the victim. Often a woman is too afraid to speak up or is unaware she is pregnant, thus the morning after pill is ineffective in these situations.

The ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights. Take away her reproductive choice and you step onto a slippery slope. If the government can force a woman to continue a pregnancy, what about forcing a woman to use contraception or undergo sterilization?

People can agree or take issue with these points. Wanted them noted.

Likes this post

[parousia]

What's worse: A woman turning her man gay, or the fact that she was attracted to a gay man in the first place?

[Nostalgic]

The second.
You can't turn anyone gay.

[parousia]

I agree with you.
What do you think that says about a woman who is attracted to gay men?

[Nostalgic]

It says that they picked the wrong person and need to move on.
I would only think them silly if they continued to try.