Question... Catholic and Christian/ Karma heaven and hell

[Nostalgic]

What is the difference between catholic and Christian.
Where does anglacain, mormen, etc fit in, are they separate or sects? How many sects are there?
Thx

[Dorn]

I take it that you by "Christian" mean Protestantism by proxy; incidentally, both are Christian.

Simply put, Catholicism is traditional and doctrinaire, emphasizing the interpretive authority of the priest, the King James version of the Bible (seen as a complete document), the teachings of the early church fathers, the sacraments, saint worship (particularly Virgin Mary) and a wide variety of rituals that have been maintained throughout the years. And salvation comes through faith and works.

In Protestantism, all sacraments, confessionals and early traditions are removed; only the communion remains. The Bible (New Testament really, irrespective of which translation) is the only text considered, and the priest holds no interpretive authority. Rather, its members constitute a universal fellowship (although some congregations maintain a hierarchy of seniority, presbyters). And salvation comes through faith alone.

There are countless variations within the two churches, but I think I highlighted the general divide.

[Nostalgic]

Thx for the info.
I think out of all the religions these 2 are the hardest to understand. there just seems to be so many parts and bits to it.

[Dorn]

I think out of all the religions these 2 are the hardest to understand. there just seems to be so many parts and bits to it.

That's understandable. Catholicism is perhaps the most elaborate religion around. It takes the eclectic and sophisticated texts of Judaism, overloads it with even more writings, and then filters it through the tens of thousands of reports from church councils that have taken place since the days of Constantine Rome.

A well-versed Catholic priest/scholar is a walking library, second to none. As a curiosity pertaining to their bookishness, six out of nine U.S. Supreme Court justices are Roman Catholic, the remaining three are Jewish.

[Nostalgic]

Americains are quite religious in general no?
I'm suprised the catholic preists don't get confused with all the writings. I've never read religious text but I assume it can be translated to mean what the reader wants to hear. Similair to horoscopes. You read it and fit it in to your life somehow?
Or am I wrong in this assumption?

Don't ask where I get my assumptions from but I'm learning

[Dorn]

Americains are quite religious in general no?

It's in the U.S. Constitution. Our rights, unalienable as they are, come from God directly, and our legislators swear an oath to uphold this order.

I'm suprised the catholic preists don't get confused with all the writings. I've never read religious text but I assume it can be translated to mean what the reader wants to hear. Similair to horoscopes. You read it and fit it in to your life somehow?
Or am I wrong in this assumption?

Yes.
Mystic Meg, to name one screwball, is rather an extension of entertainment and pop psychology, whose blurbs are incomparable to scripture. A literal reading of the Bible, as if it were zodiac prophecy, is unseemly and rejected even by most of the crazed fundamentalists. On the other hand, the opposite--that is, the search for hidden codes--is equally bunk. It is an undertaking also known as "biased inductive logic" (conspiracy theories à la Dan Brown), which rarely works in fiction--and is laughable outside of it.

[Nostalgic]

Thx again

[SharA2]

Hard to explain briefly but if I were I would tell you, Christianity is based on the beliefs of Jesus Of Nazareth being the Son of God, whereas Catholicism is one of the several denominations of the main Christian faith. And most probably has the largest followings of all the denominations of the Christian faiths, like Protestantism and Lutheranism.
Unlike other Christians, Catholics also believe in a spiritual and literal interpretation of the bible and are more strict about following the Scriptures word for word and are not very open to interpretations. Both Catholics and Christians believe Jesus was the savior and died on the cross as an atonement for our sins. Blessings.

[Nostalgic]

Thx shar

[Bubbydoll]

What is the difference between catholic and Christian.
Where does anglacain, mormen, etc fit in, are they separate or sects? How many sects are there?
Thx

I am Protestant/Christian. I belong to the United Church of Canada.
Although because I believe in Karma and Reincarnation my sweetie says I am more New age and not Christian.

[Nostalgic]

What is the difference between catholic and Christian.
Where does anglacain, mormen, etc fit in, are they separate or sects? How many sects are there?
Thx

I am Protestant/Christian. I belong to the United Church of Canada.
Although because I believe in Karma and Reincarnation my sweetie says I am more New age and not Christian.

What's new age christian and do Protestants not believe in Karma and Reincarnation?

[Dorn]

What's new age christian ...?

That's a good question ...

As there is no interpretive authority for Protestants, there really is no limit to--or cap on--one's beliefs. It would be awkward, though, if the New Age influence were to override the Christian aspect.

... and do Protestants not believe in Karma and Reincarnation?

It's as foreign to us as jihad, saint worship or last rites.

[Nostalgic]

Is religion so strict you can't chose a few points from another?

I don't know if I believe in karma and reincarnation? But I like the idea of both.
reincarnation fits into my energy theory though.

[el gato]

I'm not sure karma exists, when I was younger, I was taught that heaven and hell do in fact exist...well then again, I guess that is something like karma after all now isn't it... what do you know...you CAN teach an old dog a new trick or two hehehe

[Nostalgic]

I can see why you could say it's karma but then all you have to do is ask for forgiveness to get into heaven and a prayer is not really a good deed.

[el gato]

Yes....prayer is good but you see GOD KNOWS WHAT'S IN YOUR HEART......I have faith of this, and HE sees through bullshit even better than me

[SharA2]

"According to the seed that’s sown,
So is the fruit you reap there from,
Doer of good will gather good,
Doer of evil, evil reaps,
Down is the seed and thou shalt taste
The fruit thereof."

[Nostalgic]

Nice Shar.
I don't think heaven and hell has to do with karma though.
I don't believe in heaven or hell but If the did exsist you would have to do a hell of a lot of bad stuff as god is suppossed to forgive no?

[SharA2]

I believe if you repent and it is true, God will forgive you of your sins. He is merciful.

Here is some Karma writings:
Karma literally means action or doing. Any kind of intentional action whether mental, verbal, or physical, is regarded as Karma. It covers all that is included in the phrase "thought, word and deed". Generally speaking, all good and bad action constitutes Karma. In its ultimate sense Karma means all moral and immoral volition. Involuntary, unintentional or unconscious actions, though technically deeds, do not constitute Karma, because volition, the most important factor in determining Karma, is absent.

Karma does not necessarily mean past actions. It embraces both past and present deeds. Hence in one sense, we are the result of what we were; we will be the result of what we are. In another sense, it should be added, we are not totally the result of what we were; we will not absolutely be the result of what we are. The present is no doubt the offspring of the past and is the present of the future, but the present is not always a true index of either the past or the future; so complex is the working of Karma.

According to the Buddhist doctrine of Karma, one is not always compelled by an ‘iron necessity’, for Karma is neither fate, nor predestination imposed upon us by some mysterious unknown power to which we must helplessly submit ourselves. It is one’s own doing reacting on oneself, and so one has the possibility to divert the course of one’s Karma to some extent. How far one diverts it depends on oneself.

He who believes in Karma does not condemn even the most corrupt, for they, too, have their chance to reform themselves at any moment. Though bound to suffer in woeful states, they have hope of attaining eternal Peace. By their own doings they have created their own Hells, and by their own doings they can create their own Heavens, too.

[Nostalgic]

Wow lots of info. So you think karma will send you to heaven or hell?

[el gato]

[color=#FF0000]bonjour nostalgic etes vous encore mere ?[/color]


SO NOSTALGI, HOW'S TRICKS?

[SharA2]

Wow lots of info. So you think karma will send you to heaven or hell?

The good you do or the harm you do in this life is what will send you to heaven or hell, especially if you do harm and do not repent.

[Nostalgic]

I'm not religious but thx for replying your point of view

[SharA2]

What are your spiritual beliefs, everyone has some belief? Also you are welcome. Blessings.

[Nostalgic]

What are your spiritual beliefs, everyone has some belief? Also you are welcome. Blessings.

I believe in the power of the mind and energy.
I tend to believe in reincarnation as our energy has to go some where when we die but still not sure if I believe in That?
I don't believe in any higher power.

[St. Dymphna]

....as our energy has to go some where when we die

I don't believe in any higher power.

That's the one thing I've always been disappointed in you about, Nos.

[Nostalgic]

Sorry to disappoint but hey I'm happy

[Dorn]

I tend to believe in reincarnation as our energy has to go some where when we die but still not sure if I believe in That?

That sounds like thermodynamics and the conservation of energy rather than reincarnation.

I don't believe in any higher power.

Would you care to define "higher power"?

[parousia]

spectator?

Sectator fœderis Pauli.

[Dorn]

spectator?

Sectator fœderis Pauli.

No. Sectator, you New Age twat.

[parousia]

spectator?

Sectator fœderis Pauli.

No. Sectator, you New Age twat.

Provide a link, please. Otherwise I'll continue to believe you're a whatever

[Dorn]

spectator?

Sectator fœderis Pauli.

No. Sectator, you New Age twat.

Provide a link, please. Otherwise I'll continue to believe you're a whatever

Did you suddenly lose your googling skills? (Link.)

Good call on Ziggy/el gato, by the way. Do you happen to know what his old DM username was?

[parousia]

I suspect, and I'll leave it at that.
I suspect you of 2 other members, too.
@ your link -

[Dorn]

I suspect you of 2 other members, too.

Beyond endebendel?

[parousia]

Yes.
I like this Dorn character though, but I fear the protocol is in place; you will fuck it up as usual. Don't, it's that easy.
Just look how long I've made it, I mean greenhavoc was an awful character, yet here I am.

I'm a boss, kid.
Later

[woodenspirit]

Just look how long I've made it, I mean greenhavoc was an awful character, yet here I am.

you're still an insulting dick head and no matter what character you portray..you just can't change that.

[parousia]

get your ass back on topic before Nos kick yours and mine out of her thread, I just found out the option is on it's? way - no shit

[misha666]

Just look how long I've made it, I mean greenhavoc was an awful character, yet here I am.

you're still an insulting dick head and no matter what character you portray..you just can't change that.

[Nostalgic]

I tend to believe in reincarnation as our energy has to go some where when we die but still not sure if I believe in That?

That sounds like thermodynamics and the conservation of energy rather than reincarnation.

I don't believe in any higher power.

Would you care to define "higher power"?

thermodynamics, going to look into this.

Higher power to me is any god from all religions or something or someone that is looked upon as the creator / watcher of this world.

[misha666]

What is the difference between catholic and Christian.
Where does anglacain, mormen, etc fit in, are they separate or sects? How many sects are there?
Thx

thats how i feel when it comes to religion talk.
All i know about catholic is adam and eve and somthing about the snake and god.
then mary and joseph having a baby but joshep not being the bilogical father blah blah blah.
then jesus being on the cross dead for talking giberish.

In christian i have nothing or know nothing.

[Nostalgic]

Green I'm curious to who you think Dorn is.

Misha, I've learn a lot from asking questions here as people are nice and don't use big words

[Dorn]

Higher power to me is any god from all religions or something or someone that is looked upon as the creator / watcher of this world.

Creation is a principle of instantiation rather than a literal concept, and "God as watchman" is a perception outside of the mainstream.

How do you view nature and its constraints?

[Nostalgic]

Higher power to me is any god from all religions or something or someone that is looked upon as the creator / watcher of this world.

Creation is a principle of instantiation rather than a literal concept, and "God as watchman" is a perception outside of the mainstream.

How do you view nature and its constraints?

I think nature and it's constraints are just how the world works. I've not thought much on it before to be honest.
Nature needs everything within it to continue. Plants can't grow without the sun and the rain. I don't look on nature as a spiritual thing. Nature can be beautiful but nasty when it causes things like what happened in japan.
I never studied evolution but that makes more sense to me than a spirit creating.

I read a bit on thermodynamics. The laws of it state that energy can't be created or destroyed. Which is why my theory is that it's passed on to a newborn when we die.
But I also know I like the idea of reincarnation and that it may not be. The energy theory I have is my way of saying reincarnation may be possible.

[Dorn]

How do you view nature and its constraints?

I think nature and it's constraints are just how the world works. I've not thought much on it before to be honest.
Nature needs everything within it to continue. Plants can't grow without the sun and the rain. I don't look on nature as a spiritual thing. Nature can be beautiful but nasty when it causes things like what happened in japan.
I never studied evolution but that makes more sense to me than a spirit creating.

Sure, but one does not exclude the other. Natural selection has determined the evolution of the species, which is a scientifically verifiable fact. God, on the other hand, does not coincide with science.

I read a bit on thermodynamics. The laws of it state that energy can't be created or destroyed. Which is why my theory is that it's passed on to a newborn when we die.
But I also know I like the idea of reincarnation and that it may not be. The energy theory I have is my way of saying reincarnation may be possible.

But wouldn't such an order necessitate a primary, universal principle (God, prime mover, first cause, "higher power," or similar) that occurs beyond the known laws of physics?

[Nostalgic]

Natural selection, I dont think that's gods work.
My only argument would be "it just works that way" lame I know.
But it's instinct to survive as well. I don't think it's god telling me I need to eat it's my body.

I guess it would. I think I'm just trying to justify that reincarnation is possible but I very much doubt it is.
Energy can't die but when I really think about it, I can't see it flying around trying to find a newborn baby.

[Dorn]

Natural selection, I dont think that's gods work.

There is no reason to pin one against the other. One is a scientifically verifiable fact, the other a supra-rational principle.

My only argument would be "it just works that way" lame I know.

I take Darwinian natural selection for granted as well. No disagreement there.

But it's instinct to survive as well. I don't think it's god telling me I need to eat it's my body.

I assure you, no Christian believes that either.

I guess it would. I think I'm just trying to justify that reincarnation is possible but I very much doubt it is.
Energy can't die but when I really think about it, I can't see it flying around trying to find a newborn baby.

Faith does not require proof, but a cohesive framework. That's why you need a supra-rational principle (God, prime mover, higher power) to merge paradoxes and contradictions. Without it, we float freely, with our existence lacking a foundational platform.

[Nostalgic]

I can see why you think that but I don't know, a higher power to me just seems impossible.

[Dorn]

I can see why you think that but I don't know, a higher power to me just seems impossible.

The higher power doesn't manifest. Rather, it is the principle through which the impossible or non-rational comes into being. (Life in the universe being one such impossibility.)

[Nostalgic]

I can see why you think that but I don't know, a higher power to me just seems impossible.

The higher power doesn't manifest. Rather, it is the principle through which the impossible or non-rational comes into being. (Life in the universe being one such impossibility.)

Ok, I think I'm getting it now?

Higher power is not neccassarally a god type figure but could be the thing that fits everything together. So as atheist I would assume it some kind of science thing.
Or am I just getting myself more confused here?

[Dorn]

Higher power is not neccassarally a god type figure but could be the thing that fits everything together.

Yes, and placed outside of the mind's rational boundaries. Moreover, God does not possess a physical form to the likes of Zeus or Jupiter.

So as atheist I would assume it some kind of science thing.

No. Science is a method of discovery relying on evident usefulness. Christianity is a revealed religion venturing beyond the rational, rooting itself in the accumulated experience of the human race. Atheism is the negative creed whereby every such foundational aspect is abrogated.