The practical side of religious beliefs

[messiah]

oh it is, but its controlled violence since A) ure disabling person from causing further violence and B) you're actually letting them live

[The Eagle]

oh it is, but its controlled violence since A) ure disabling person from causing further violence and B) you're actually letting them live

ah so violence is ok if you dont kill someone and its in what you personally consider a good cause?

come on now. think about it.

[messiah]

well ok u dont have to hit them over the head, i only said it for the sole purpose of humor. Disarm them tie em up and hand em over. You cannot comprehend something by words until you're put into such position. Its easy to say i wouldn't kill or harm something it is the circumstances we are put in and our acknowledgment of these circumstances that brings about our final decision. Everyone is different and yet same in a sense that they would react different. while one person may kill someone the other may let them live. Just by psychological analysis of someone u cant really say that they are not a killer until they are put into such place..nothing to do with good cause, its to do with conscience.

[The Eagle]

the point was either you kill the guy or he rapes and murders your wife and kids. you think god, jesus, billy ray sirus is concernded about thou shall not kill if you are being selfish and saying what is written is more important than saving your family.

this is why the whole "WORD OF GOD" bugs me.

the age of hero's is dead now we have "non-violent" marters that will see thier families dead because they are so selfish and arrogant. that is what i believe is wrong about society now - people not willing to step up and help people. only sit back and moan.

i dont mean you in that.

[messiah]

technically God kills wicked people too in order to leave room for good people hence why he wiped out the humanity... so if i had no choice i would murder someone reagrdless of the consequences.

[sheepdove]

the point was either you kill the guy or he rapes and murders your wife and kids. you think god, jesus, billy ray sirus is concernded about thou shall not kill if you are being selfish and saying what is written is more important than saving your family.

this is why the whole "WORD OF GOD" bugs me.

the age of hero's is dead now we have "non-violent" marters that will see thier families dead because they are so selfish and arrogant. that is what i believe is wrong about society now - people not willing to step up and help people. only sit back and moan.

i dont mean you in that.

The only way you can find out what a person can do is give them a gun and then try to rape their love one in front of them. Come try it. Just remember I'm not on this forum to try to get anyone saved. I'm not Jesus. I couldn't care if you's went to hell or not if that's the route you chose. Come. I'm waiting. Let's see what I 'd do. I'd love to find out what it'd be.

[messiah]

Here is a good quote

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

[sheepdove]

Actually I did save someone from rape before in my younger days. I wasn't as strong as the assailant and they got away. I didn't know who they were and neither did the victim. No one knows what they are going to do until they do it. You ought to know that. You can't ask a person what they will do because they don't really know. Until they have to do something they won't know what it'll be. Only a person without any sense would say otherwise. At one given point in time they may do one thing and then in another given point in time do another. So quit asking such stupid questions.

[The Eagle]

technically God kills wicked people too in order to leave room for good people hence why he wiped out the humanity... so if i had no choice i would murder someone reagrdless of the consequences.

so one violence is ok - if you think the other person was evil and two that you think god is on your side and not the murderers?

what if hte murderer was murdering on the advice of god - i.e. that he thought he was told by god that your family was goning to commit alot of evil?

[The Eagle]

Actually I did save someone from rape before in my younger days. I wasn't as strong as the assailant and they got away. I didn't know who they were and neither did the victim. No one knows what they are going to do until they do it. You ought to know that. You can't ask a person what they will do because they don't really know. Until they have to do something they won't know what it'll be. Only a person without any sense would say otherwise. At one given point in time they may do one thing and then in another given point in time do another. So quit asking such stupid questions.

stick to answering the question and inventing stories. think before you speak.

anyway as your words of "wisdom" would apply - you should refrain on preaching "thou shall not kill " if you yourself do not know what you would do in a situation.

[sheepdove]

Actually I did save someone from rape before in my younger days. I wasn't as strong as the assailant and they got away. I didn't know who they were and neither did the victim. No one knows what they are going to do until they do it. You ought to know that. You can't ask a person what they will do because they don't really know. Until they have to do something they won't know what it'll be. Only a person without any sense would say otherwise. At one given point in time they may do one thing and then in another given point in time do another. So quit asking such stupid questions.

stick to answering the question and inventing stories. think before you speak.

anyway as your words of "wisdom" would apply - you should refrain on preaching "thou shall not kill " if you yourself do not know what you would do in a situation.

I didn't kill that rapist. He still lives.

[The Eagle]

Actually I did save someone from rape before in my younger days. I wasn't as strong as the assailant and they got away. I didn't know who they were and neither did the victim. No one knows what they are going to do until they do it. You ought to know that. You can't ask a person what they will do because they don't really know. Until they have to do something they won't know what it'll be. Only a person without any sense would say otherwise. At one given point in time they may do one thing and then in another given point in time do another. So quit asking such stupid questions.

stick to answering the question and inventing stories. think before you speak.

anyway as your words of "wisdom" would apply - you should refrain on preaching "thou shall not kill " if you yourself do not know what you would do in a situation.

I didn't kill that rapist. He still lives.

but dont you get it - your wife and children got raped and killed because of YOUR religous belief in thou shall not kill being more important than helping your family............ you could of saved them.

come on think about it. please just think about the situation given to you.

[sheepdove]

Actually I did save someone from rape before in my younger days. I wasn't as strong as the assailant and they got away. I didn't know who they were and neither did the victim. No one knows what they are going to do until they do it. You ought to know that. You can't ask a person what they will do because they don't really know. Until they have to do something they won't know what it'll be. Only a person without any sense would say otherwise. At one given point in time they may do one thing and then in another given point in time do another. So quit asking such stupid questions.

stick to answering the question and inventing stories. think before you speak.

anyway as your words of "wisdom" would apply - you should refrain on preaching "thou shall not kill " if you yourself do not know what you would do in a situation.

I didn't kill that rapist. He still lives.

but dont you get it - your wife and children got raped and killed because of YOUR religous belief in thou shall not kill being more important than helping your family............ you could of saved them.

come on think about it. please just think about the situation given to you.

Mister you're a crazy. If God wanted you strong enough to save someone he'd make you strong enough to do so. You can't do what you can't do even if you try to. Trying don't change nothing if you're not strong enough. That's why the raptist got away from me in my younger days. Strength wins out. Not good intentions. Good intentions gets you killed. If a guy wanted to rape my wife and kids if I had any he'd already have me tied up or dead so your question is crazy as you. Get real.

[The Eagle]

Actually I did save someone from rape before in my younger days. I wasn't as strong as the assailant and they got away. I didn't know who they were and neither did the victim. No one knows what they are going to do until they do it. You ought to know that. You can't ask a person what they will do because they don't really know. Until they have to do something they won't know what it'll be. Only a person without any sense would say otherwise. At one given point in time they may do one thing and then in another given point in time do another. So quit asking such stupid questions.

stick to answering the question and inventing stories. think before you speak.

anyway as your words of "wisdom" would apply - you should refrain on preaching "thou shall not kill " if you yourself do not know what you would do in a situation.

I didn't kill that rapist. He still lives.

but dont you get it - your wife and children got raped and killed because of YOUR religous belief in thou shall not kill being more important than helping your family............ you could of saved them.

come on think about it. please just think about the situation given to you.

Mister you're a crazy. If God wanted you strong enough to save someone he'd make you strong enough to do so. You can't do what you can't do even if you try to. Trying don't change nothing if you're not strong enough. That's why the raptist got away from me in my younger days. Strength wins out. Not good intentions. Good intentions gets you killed. If a guy wanted to rape my wife and kids if I had any he'd already have me tied up or dead so your question is crazy as you. Get real.

right so be self-righteous as long as you dont have to stand up to bad people pysically?? the choice was step and kill asomeone that was going to kill and rape your family or deal with it and accept the consequences - you prove yourself to be selfish.

again cop out

[The Eagle]

what i am trying to get at is that thou shall not kill - the whole non violence thing - is a good rule for people. its a good rule for society - a practical rule to follow. but when you make the rule more important than what is right - then it is wrong.

when you focus on rules written in stone - then you ignore what real life is about.

[messiah]

God IS on my side, and i have other means of dealing with violent people. violence doesn't solve violence it will never work, its like trying to put out a fire with gasoline. All these questions are what if ... the thing that matters to me is that i never have killed a person and hopefully never will and second i would if i HAD to. I dont understand why you keep on going my answer was plain as. Violence is just not right and should be kept as a last resort, i never said it was right but i would resort to it if i had to.

[The Eagle]

God IS on my side, and i have other means of dealing with violent people. violence doesn't solve violence it will never work, its like trying to put out a fire with gasoline. All these questions are what if ... the thing that matters to me is that i never have killed a person and hopefully never will and second i would if i HAD to. I dont understand why you keep on going my answer was plain as. Violence is just not right and should be kept as a last resort, i never said it was right but i would resort to it if i had to.

i never said god wasnt on your side- do you need this god to be on your side?

you eat meat-that means killing something that has a soul. its ok if other people accept the fate of thou shall not kill as long as you personally dont............

if killing is ok as a last resort - you are saying you cant condem others when they think it is a last resort.

think about it.

[messiah]

Listen if God created all this and gave us animals, so we can tame them, feed them kill them...than i am not worried. Why would i want to condemn a killer, what use would that be... in fact it would just bring about ore violence. Bottom line is I didn't kill it, youre digging into something that has no meaning to m.. You define yourself as a person you are your own character, if i didn't have that meat ready for me in ridge i wouldn't never even eat meat, i like it though and no it does not mean i participated or contributed to that person. If anything blame the system.

[The Eagle]

so you are changing now to violence against animals is ok- aslong as you eat them..................??

animals dont have souls now?

[Tal]

"I blame the system..."

[The Eagle]

"I blame the system..."

don't me started Tal....................

nah i off to bed - my wife is waiting - night dreamers.

[messiah]

no when animals are killed they are killed as painlessly as possible. They have a soul but no sense of right or wrong, animals kill too in order to survive... tell them they are violent and i bet they reply with one big FUCK YOU and call you a hypocrite.

[messiah]

and for further reference ...violence does not necessary mean killing although we both used it in the same concept when maybe we shouldn't have.

[Tal]

"I blame the system..."

don't me started Tal....................

nah i off to bed - my wife is waiting - night dreamers.

Night Eagle.

[The Eagle]

no when animals are killed they are killed as painlessly as possible. They have a soul but no sense of right or wrong, animals kill too in order to survive... tell them they are violent and i bet they reply with one big FUCK YOU and call you a hypocrite.

how do you know animals dont have a sense of right or wrong?

so if a living thing has a soul - but doesnt know right or wrong - its ok to kill it? how about humans then? - is it ok to kill humans that dont know right or wrong?

[St. Dymphna]

how do you know animals dont have a sense of right or wrong?

They do and it is called instincts. Man has killed animal since the beginning of time out of necessity, not sin. We are first omnivores regardless of what our second brain tells us.

so if a living thing has a soul - but doesnt know right or wrong - its ok to kill it? how about humans then? - is it ok to kill humans that dont know right or wrong?

No it is not, but it is okay for them to kill. Their ignorance of the fact will be a saving grace, of course this is assuming the invisible hand is more human than deity.

I personally believe the thought process of a deity is unknown to humans. I imagine it to be so incomprehensible that a human being would rather believe it doesn't exist at all.

[The Eagle]

how do you know animals dont have a sense of right or wrong?

They do and it is called instincts. Man has killed animal since the beginning of time out of necessity, not sin. We are first omnivores regardless of what our second brain tells us.

so if a living thing has a soul - but doesnt know right or wrong - its ok to kill it? how about humans then? - is it ok to kill humans that dont know right or wrong?

No it is not, but it is okay for them to kill. Their ignorance of the fact will be a saving grace, of course this is assuming the invisible hand is more human than deity.

I personally believe the thought process of a deity is unknown to humans. I imagine it to be so incomprehensible that a human being would rather believe it doesn't exist at all.

hmmm well you can view it like this - instincts are about survival - living is right - not surviving is wrong. all life fights for survival. perhaps animals actually are much more advanced than us in terms of spirituality.

i think as soon as we talk about god having a human action/emotion - then we are not talking of god. but thats down to how we each define what god is.

killing is not wrong - the judgement of our society and how we have grown up - we believe killing is wrong. we choose not to do on the most part - because of the consequences of the rest of society not god. people believing in a biblical god to be loving etc - well the bibilical god killed millions in the bible so its a case of "do as i say, but not as i do"

its the practical application of the rules, how it affects society thats important.

[sheepdove]

so if a living thing has a soul - but doesnt know right or wrong - its ok to kill it? how about humans then? - is it ok to kill humans that dont know right or wrong?

No it is not, but it is okay for them to kill. Their ignorance of the fact will be a saving grace, of course this is assuming the invisible hand is more human than deity.

I personally believe the thought process of a deity is unknown to humans. I imagine it to be so incomprehensible that a human being would rather believe it doesn't exist at all.[/quote]

hmmm well you can view it like this - instincts are about survival - living is right - not surviving is wrong. all life fights for survival. perhaps animals actually are much more advanced than us in terms of spirituality.

i think as soon as we talk about god having a human action/emotion - then we are not talking of god. but thats down to how we each define what god is.

killing is not wrong - the judgement of our society and how we have grown up - we believe killing is wrong. we choose not to do on the most part - because of the consequences of the rest of society not god. people believing in a biblical god to be loving etc - well the bibilical god killed millions in the bible so its a case of "do as i say, but not as i do"

its the practical application of the rules, how it affects society thats important.[/quote]
That's helps clear a lot of things up eagle about killing. The assassination of Archduke Ferdinand brought about World War 1. The british empire lost an estimated 908,000 people. The French an estimated 1,300,000. All because of that war. You discovered the perfect way to solve the over-population problem. Killing is not wrong you show so get the Vatican and Germany killing the Jews again and that will help cut the world poulation down a lot. Then you can get the Jews killing the Pope because of it and start World War 3 thereby getting all Catholics after all of the remaining Jews thereby causeing the remaining Jews to try and kill off all Christians. How much would that cut the world population down. And all of that killing done in God's name thus makeing it all right. Eagle you need to get on that right away. Who knows they might make you a true warbird if you do. Eagle I salute you. You've found a way to end food shortage problem. Kill off a good portion of the population in God's name and there will be less mouth's to feed. You're a genius you devil you. When do you draft us into service so we can start your holy war? Do we get swastika's like the Germans did? Actually a dragon would look better. Again I salute you.

[The Eagle]

excuse me sheepdove -this doesnt reflect your pm where you you said you would cheer on someone raping someone.

as for your population issue - what would you suggest as an alternative?

[sheepdove]

You don't to put a knife in someone or pull a trigger to kill someone eagle. The one that actually does the act of killing is less guilty of killing then the one who ordered him to or taught him to kill. Teach people it's all right to kill and you're guilty of killing many even if you don't pull the trigger yourself. You 're a worse murderer than they are as such then because you have not just the kills of one of them on your record but all of them. A general sends in a army and it kills people. Thousands of them. He one they kill he killed. He ordered it. He is the greatest killer as such. Manufacture weapons of war to be used in killing and you kill. Everyone one of those weapons you made that takes a life adds a new kill to your kill record. The church follows David. Not Jesus. His doctrines allows killing. He is their God. The New Testament actually shows it. The Romans continued to follow his doctrines and thus kept him as their God. Thus they lead you to believe killing is not wrong. Teaching such is murder though. It doesn't matter if you think there is a God or if you think there isn't, killing is wrong. And those who teaches it are the greatest killers of all. They can kill more people than those who orders kills. That's a lot of blood on their hands. They say their hands are clean but their hands are covered in more blood than the hands of those who actually goes out and kills.

[St. Dymphna]

Is this sheepdove person for real?

[The Eagle]

Is this sheepdove person for real?

i think thats what we are all trying to work out...............

[The Eagle]

You don't to put a knife in someone or pull a trigger to kill someone eagle. The one that actually does the act of killing is less guilty of killing then the one who ordered him to or taught him to kill. Teach people it's all right to kill and you're guilty of killing many even if you don't pull the trigger yourself. You 're a worse murderer than they are as such then because you have not just the kills of one of them on your record but all of them. A general sends in a army and it kills people. Thousands of them. He one they kill he killed. He ordered it. He is the greatest killer as such. Manufacture weapons of war to be used in killing and you kill. Everyone one of those weapons you made that takes a life adds a new kill to your kill record. The church follows David. Not Jesus. His doctrines allows killing. He is their God. The New Testament actually shows it. The Romans continued to follow his doctrines and thus kept him as their God. Thus they lead you to believe killing is not wrong. Teaching such is murder though. It doesn't matter if you think there is a God or if you think there isn't, killing is wrong. And those who teaches it are the greatest killers of all. They can kill more people than those who orders kills. That's a lot of blood on their hands. They say their hands are clean but their hands are covered in more blood than the hands of those who actually goes out and kills.

so where does cheering on someone raping someong fit into jesus words then sheepy? or is it just killing that god frowns upon?

[seeingpsyche7]

[quote="7Believer"

To limit ideas of God is to promote only one idea of God. I am only trying to teach you.[/quote]

Does it follow that to correlate a multiplicity of ideas of God lends more power to the idea of God? Does increasing the power of an idea (of God) increase the measure of the idea's influence as a mental object in the mind, which acts as a real object in the world, and thereby increase the idea's influence in on over the world? I am only trying to learn you.