The practical side of religious beliefs

[The Eagle]

The practical side of religious beliefs

The question of religion relies on one thing for me - "Why?' - and 'Where is that idea come from?' These questions are the bain of every religion stating it is the one true belief - because why and the 'where did that idea come from?' is explained by saying "god". That to me is a lack of explanation.

What I believe is important is to see the roots of a belief or religion - why have rules - or why is god is stating "you must do this" . The answer for me is simple - there is always a practical element to these beliefs not a spiritual one.

Taking god out of the rules - most religions have don't kill, don't steal, don't cheat on your missus. etc. These are not religious rules - they are rules for society to maintain order - not many would argue with them. Where did the idea come from- god? or people wanting to live in a settled society? - Rich people - kings, pharaohs etc wanting to maintain their rule by order. saying god made the rules - helps this king maintain order so he can stay rich and society can grow and give him ultimate justification for these rules.

An important part of many religions is ceremony. The roots of ceremony are to do with people not being able to read and write and having a way of passing down information to the next generation. This was not based on god telling people to act a certain way or burning some smelly things brings you closer to god - it was people living their lives in a routine for a practical reason. Routine becomes ceremony - ceremony becomes rules of a religion.

Many religious beliefs come from simple survival hints - i.e. eating certain foods. It is more practical to not eat meats that are difficult to cook to avoid food poisoning. The practical side of dietary laws are based on this idea - not that the animal is evil or dirty but just our ancestors found it difficult to survive on it.

Moreover there are several things that every religion has that can be linked to basic human survival - for example sacrifice. Getting to the root of the idea of sacrifice we look at the first sacrifice. Hunter gatherers - this can mean something as basic as putting back some eggs in a nest - not taking them all. Therefore guarantying the future food resource. That is sacrifice. You are sacrificing some food in order to be able to tap into the source at a later date - i.e. survival. The concept of sacrifice came from enabling survival. We can see further evidence of this - Is a cow revered because it is so special - or by killing it you remove the food source for a longer period of time? Its about respecting nature as the thing that lets you live.

It is managing the resources around you that enables survival - now that may seem stupid compared to sacrificing animals or humans to appease the gods, or indeed a sacrifice of a demi-god for peoples sins. But that's where we must remember what has happened - the personification of the universe. Religion and spiritual beliefs were founded on the basic human survival requirements. Sun, Water, Food, Family, Shelter. As religion and civilization grew these basic things grew into personifications - we then have the sun god, god of the sea, god of love, god of war etc etc humanisation of the different aspects of the world. Personification of the universe is exactly what happened to religions of Egypt - and the middle east and therefore the progression into christianity. I believe it is the ultimate egotistical act of mankind to humanise the world and universal processes - and even humanising god.

It is clear looking at every religion that there is a progression of beliefs. This is a normal thing to occur - we can say that there is a greater understanding of the world around us - or greater understanding of god. But that does an injustice to the people that lived before us - no religion sprung up and maintained the original beliefs. It is people living - building their beliefs on the previous generations beliefs that builds society - and builds the religion . If religion wasn't deemed so important by people then it is just another thing that we continually change and adapt to help society live its life . An idea or concept of god changing is no different to an idea of slavery or democracy changing. But there lies the problem - many people think that that beliefs and therefore god are constant. We just need to look at every religion and every generation to know that this is just not true.

In my opinion it is clear that religious beliefs have come from practical elements of survival. These beliefs have been built upon by every generation from hunter gatherers to modern day society, changing and adapting to the society , the people live in it and the political aspirations of the people making the rules. That in my opinion is a key thing to consider when considering religion.

[Methadone Jones]

i didn't care for god of war, thought it was overrated

[The Eagle]

i didn't care for god of war, thought it was overrated

It helped people at that time to survive. Civilization would be as you know it if it wasn't for the "god of war". The point is it was important at that time because people needed it.

[Methadone Jones]

my ancestors were dirt farmers, they prided themselves on growing the tastiest mäori this side of the tallahassee. so of what use would they have for kratos

[The Eagle]

my ancestors were dirt farmers, they prided themselves on growing the tastiest mäori this side of the tallahassee. so of what use would they have for kratos

Farmers were the instigators of civilzation as you know it. From farmers (People actually owning the land as from before hunter gatheres) you get land owners, from land owners - you get kings - from kings you get war. war is presevation for your way of life. Every single civilzation has gone through that if it wasnt for war you would not be living.

[Belvadere]

It helped people at that time to survive. Civilization would be as you know it if it wasn't for the "god of war". The point is it was important at that time because people needed it.

Your initial post was really interesting.
Though I don't have anything to add just that how true it sounded and what you also mention as, to consider all this when
thinking of religion.

Verrrry Interestinggg

[The Eagle]

It helped people at that time to survive. Civilization would be as you know it if it wasn't for the "god of war". The point is it was important at that time because people needed it.

Your initial post was really interesting.
Though I don't have anything to add just that how true it sounded and what you also mention as, to consider all this when
thinking of religion.

Verrrry Interestinggg

well i think mankind has gone wrong in what it deems important. if we consider mankind as part of "life" in general - then life is unique in the universe as far as we know. until we know what the universe is about - survival is the most important thing to consider. but we have moved away from survival as being the key thing in our lives. both in terms of indiduals and as a whole.

[sheepdove]

The practical side of haveing religious beliefs is you can use that religion to your advantage. Recently a catholic priest tried to hire someone to kill a teen accuseing him of sexual abuse. His God told him to do so so that makes it all right. That's religion for you. It gives you the authority to kill. God and Jesus doesn't. God is God. He's not religion. Neither is Jesus.

[Belvadere]

I don't get it...

[7Believer]

Instead of using theories to oppose the existence of Our Loving God, wouldn't a better course of action be to first seek for yourself, through prayers, humility and persistence, to see if there really is no response when you reach out for the truth? It's no small matter to disregard the existence of our Creator. Consider the fact that you are wrong, and that those who do not believe in God do not enter heaven. Wouldn't that make you responsible for causing others to lose entry into heaven? I desire for you to walk a blameless path in life, and hope that this message doesn't inspire negativity.

[The Eagle]

The practical side of haveing religious beliefs is you can use that religion to your advantage. Recently a catholic priest tried to hire someone to kill a teen accuseing him of sexual abuse. His God told him to do so so that makes it all right. That's religion for you. It gives you the authority to kill. God and Jesus doesn't. God is God. He's not religion. Neither is Jesus.

well religion is there for control of people - and to get people to act a certain way. Your religion and jesus' god - capser the friendly and holy ghost is no different. if you are following jesus' god - you follow religion too.

religion in terms of catholic church was just replacement of emperor of rome. cue power struggles, murder, child abuse and politics etc etc. not a lot has changed.

[The Eagle]

Instead of using theories to oppose the existence of Our Loving God, wouldn't a better course of action be to first seek for yourself, through prayers, humility and persistence, to see if there really is no response when you reach out for the truth? It's no small matter to disregard the existence of our Creator. Consider the fact that you are wrong, and that those who do not believe in God do not enter heaven. Wouldn't that make you responsible for causing others to lose entry into heaven? I desire for you to walk a blameless path in life, and hope that this message doesn't inspire negativity.

you hope your own negativity doesn't inspire negativity - a perfect example of religious attitude throughout the ages.

what i have stated in my original post does not oppose the existance of god. - would it not be a better course of action for you to understand what is being said before bringing negativity?

consider the fact you are wrong also - what if the god that you believe in was actualy satan in disguise? - then by you following said god and by preaching to others to follow said god YOU are responsible for causing others to lose entry into heaven?

whatever religion you are talking about i am reminded that a wise man once said: "why would i want to enter christian heaven?? - thats where all the intolerant christian assholes will be....."

by all means reaplace the word "christian" with whatever religion you follow........

[sheepdove]

The practical side of haveing religious beliefs is you can use that religion to your advantage. Recently a catholic priest tried to hire someone to kill a teen accuseing him of sexual abuse. His God told him to do so so that makes it all right. That's religion for you. It gives you the authority to kill. God and Jesus doesn't. God is God. He's not religion. Neither is Jesus.

well religion is there for control of people - and to get people to act a certain way. Your religion and jesus' god - capser the friendly and holy ghost is no different. if you are following jesus' god - you follow religion too.

religion in terms of catholic church was just replacement of emperor of rome. cue power struggles, murder, child abuse and politics etc etc. not a lot has changed.

I've noticed you left out the mighty eagle. It has a lot in common with all of those elements. It feeds on carrion. Preys on the weak, the sick, and the young. It has it's followers as such. It's cult. Just like the sun does. So it's your religious deity. It like religion is evil incarnate. But practice it all you want though. God gives all free will and let's them choose their own fate. Enjoy. I salute you for chooseing your own path.

[The Eagle]

I've noticed you left out the mighty eagle. It has a lot in common with all of those elements. It feeds on carrion. Preys on the weak, the sick, and the young. It has it's followers as such. It's cult. Just like the sun does. So it's your religious deity. It like religion is evil incarnate. But practice it all you want though. God gives all free will and let's them choose their own fate. Enjoy. I salute you for chooseing your own path.

well that just plain has no reference to what i posted but oh well..... are you saying i worship "the mighty eagle"??

god doenst need, want, request, desires any followers - religion does. gos doesnt need worship - religion does. god has no ghost - religion does.

you forgot two things about the "mighty eagle" though - it soars closer to god and sees a hell of a lot further and clearer than a sheep.

[sheepdove]

I've noticed you left out the mighty eagle. It has a lot in common with all of those elements. It feeds on carrion. Preys on the weak, the sick, and the young. It has it's followers as such. It's cult. Just like the sun does. So it's your religious deity. It like religion is evil incarnate. But practice it all you want though. God gives all free will and let's them choose their own fate. Enjoy. I salute you for chooseing your own path.

well that just plain has no reference to what i posted but oh well..... are you saying i worship "the mighty eagle"??

god doenst need, want, request, desires any followers - religion does. gos doesnt need worship - religion does. god has no ghost - religion does.

you forgot two things about the "mighty eagle" though - it soars closer to god and sees a hell of a lot further and clearer than a sheep.

You forget God is not religion. Religion is of man and Satan. Created to lead people from God. Jesus knew that. Tried to show us that. So in truth you follow a religion of your own. You make God a religion when he's not one. He is merely God. Merely the creator. Creation. By the way you mentioned gos. Goshawks are wonderful birds which feed on fish. They enjoy the abundance of food which God gave them. You should too. Happy Thanksgiveing. Enjoy your turkey. Not as carrion though. Roast it to honey dripping perfection. Umm. Oh wrong hawk. That's the Osprey. The Bald Eagle as well. Don't you just love them. Yeh.

[greenhavoc]

Farmers were the instigators of civilzation as you know it. From farmers (People actually owning the land as from before hunter gatheres) you get land owners, from land owners - you get kings - from kings you get war. war is presevation for your way of life. Every single civilzation has gone through that if it wasnt for war you would not be living.

What does this have to do with Kratos?

[The Eagle]

You forget God is not religion. Religion is of man and Satan. Created to lead people from God. Jesus knew that. Tried to show us that. So in truth you follow a religion of your own. You make God a religion when he's not one. He is merely God. Merely the creator. Creation. By the way you mentioned gos. Goshawks are wonderful birds which feed on fish. They enjoy the abundance of food which God gave them. You should too. Happy Thanksgiveing. Enjoy your turkey. Not as carrion though. Roast it to honey dripping perfection. Umm. Oh wrong hawk. That's the Osprey. The Bald Eagle as well. Don't you just love them. Yeh.

i dint forget that sheepdove. religion is of man. jesus was a man. jesus beliefs were of man.

god is god - indeed! - not a holy ghost then. - that is belief of man - of man.

happy thanks giving??? you celebrate thanks giving??

[The Eagle]

Farmers were the instigators of civilzation as you know it. From farmers (People actually owning the land as from before hunter gatheres) you get land owners, from land owners - you get kings - from kings you get war. war is presevation for your way of life. Every single civilzation has gone through that if it wasnt for war you would not be living.

What does this have to do with Kratos?

depends what Kratos you refer to of course.......

if you refer to the greek god of war - then it has everything to do with what i said. if however you meant the videogame that Methadone Jones
was probably referring to - then it has nothing to do with it.

[7Believer]

Taking god out of the rules - most religions have don't kill, don't steal, don't cheat on your missus. etc. These are not religious rules - they are rules for society to maintain order - not many would argue with them. Where did the idea come from- god? or people wanting to live in a settled society? - Rich people - kings, pharaohs etc wanting to maintain their rule by order. saying god made the rules - helps this king maintain order so he can stay rich and society can grow and give him ultimate justification for these rules

.

An important part of many religions is ceremony. The roots of ceremony are to do with people not being able to read and write and having a way of passing down information to the next generation. This was not based on god telling people to act a certain way or burning some smelly things brings you closer to god - it was people living their lives in a routine for a practical reason. Routine becomes ceremony - ceremony becomes rules of a religion.

It is managing the resources around you that enables survival - now that may seem stupid compared to sacrificing animals or humans to appease the gods, or indeed a sacrifice of a demi-god for peoples sins. But that's where we must remember what has happened - the personification of the universe. Religion and spiritual beliefs were founded on the basic human survival requirements. Sun, Water, Food, Family, Shelter. As religion and civilization grew these basic things grew into personifications - we then have the sun god, god of the sea, god of love, god of war etc etc humanisation of the different aspects of the world. Personification of the universe is exactly what happened to religions of Egypt - and the middle east and therefore the progression into christianity. I believe it is the ultimate egotistical act of mankind to humanise the world and universal processes - and even humanising god.

But there lies the problem - many people think that that beliefs and therefore god are constant. We just need to look at every religion and every generation to know that this is just not true.

In my opinion it is clear that religious beliefs have come from practical elements of survival. These beliefs have been built upon by every generation from hunter gatherers to modern day society, changing and adapting to the society , the people live in it and the political aspirations of the people making the rules. That in my opinion is a key thing to consider when considering religion.

I apologise if I appear negative. I refer to negative as sinful, not disagreeable. From your posts, it appears as if you deny the existence of God and claim practical elements of survival created Him. If I'm wrong, I again apologise.

consider the fact you are wrong also - what if the god that you believe in was actualy satan in disguise? - then by you following said god and by preaching to others to follow said god YOU are responsible for causing others to lose entry into heaven?

I follow The One True God. I honestly don't think that Satan is behind me going to church, praying, loving unconditionally, and following The Bible, as well as trying to help others believe in God.

whatever religion you are talking about i am reminded that a wise man once said: "why would i want to enter christian heaven?? - thats where all the intolerant christian assholes will be....."

I forgive you. I don't think insults are an act of a wise man.

I'm not trying to offend you Eagle. I'm trying to help you walk towards God instead of away from Him.

[The Eagle]

I apologise if I appear negative. I refer to negative as sinful, not disagreeable. From your posts, it appears as if you deny the existence of God and claim practical elements of survival created Him. If I'm wrong, I again apologise.

I follow The One True God. I honestly don't think that Satan is behind me going to church, praying, loving unconditionally, and following The Bible, as well as trying to help others believe in God.

I forgive you. I don't think insults are an act of a wise man.

I'm not trying to offend you Eagle. I'm trying to help you walk towards God instead of away from Him.

those posts do not deny the existance of god at all - they deal with mankinds representation of god.

which "one true god" is it you follow exactly? - there have been several throughout history.......

i honestly dont think god is behind religion - but there you go. so you believe satan is involved with me thinking that? well perhaps satan is behind you believing what you believe yeah?

i forgive you too because jesus threw insults - check your bible.

you cant walk towards god - god is not in any direction. god does not have directions - mankind and religion does. you saying i am walking away from god by not believing as you do - well are you walking away from god for not believing as i do?

see once you define god such as the creators of christianity have - then it breeds intolerance and brings negativity in the world such as you are doing - not saying that you mean to - but thats just the side effect of the religion you follow.

every religion has to claim to be truth - to be the one true god. why discount the others? - christiaity has nothing new in terms of what it teaches - those lessons were already there. is it because this one is popular where you live at the moment?

[7Believer]

those posts do not deny the existance of god at all - they deal with mankinds representation of god

.

I believe to change God from what is taught about Him, from The Church and The Bible, to the extent that you have, is also to deny His existence. The Church may make mistakes, but it is the closest organisation to Him, and does represent Him. I don't think he would let it sway too far from the truth.

which "one true god" is it you follow exactly? - there have been several throughout history.......

The same as The Church.

i honestly dont think god is behind religion - but there you go. so you believe satan is involved with me thinking that? well perhaps satan is behind you believing what you believe yeah?

God has given us instruction through religion. To abandon his instruction, isn't that what the devil desires?

i forgive you too because jesus threw insults - check your bible.

To call a sinner a sinner isn't an insult. Likewise, I think to call a hypocrite a hypocrite isn't an insult. It's a factual description.

you cant walk towards god - god is not in any direction. god does not have directions - mankind and religion does. you saying i am walking away from god by not believing as you do - well are you walking away from god for not believing as i do?

There are directions toward God. He has provided them for us. You discredit the representation of God based on a theory. Isn't doubt the opposite of faith?

see once you define god such as the creators of christianity have - then it breeds intolerance and brings negativity in the world such as you are doing - not saying that you mean to - but thats just the side effect of the religion you follow

.

I'm not sure what you refer to as intolerance. If you are referring to opposition to sin, or oppostion to abandonement of God's instruction for us, I don't think that's negative, I think it's the opposite. If you are referring to opposition to free will, consider this; you have the freedom of choice to follow God's Way or not. If His Way is the absolute best path you could possibly follow, the best way to support all of existence, the best way for you to live your life, why would you choose a different way?

every religion has to claim to be truth - to be the one true god. why discount the others? - christiaity has nothing new in terms of what it teaches - those lessons were already there. is it because this one is popular where you live at the moment

Faith.

[The Eagle]

those posts do not deny the existance of god at all - they deal with mankinds representation of god

.

I believe to change God from what is taught about Him, from The Church and The Bible, to the extent that you have, is also to deny His existence. The Church may make mistakes, but it is the closest organisation to Him, and does represent Him. I don't think he would let it sway too far from the truth.

which "one true god" is it you follow exactly? - there have been several throughout history.......

The same as The Church.

i honestly dont think god is behind religion - but there you go. so you believe satan is involved with me thinking that? well perhaps satan is behind you believing what you believe yeah?

God has given us instruction through religion. To abandon his instruction, isn't that what the devil desires?

i forgive you too because jesus threw insults - check your bible.

To call a sinner a sinner isn't an insult. Likewise, I think to call a hypocrite a hypocrite isn't an insult. It's a factual description.

you cant walk towards god - god is not in any direction. god does not have directions - mankind and religion does. you saying i am walking away from god by not believing as you do - well are you walking away from god for not believing as i do?

There are directions toward God. He has provided them for us. You discredit the representation of God based on a theory. Isn't doubt the opposite of faith?

see once you define god such as the creators of christianity have - then it breeds intolerance and brings negativity in the world such as you are doing - not saying that you mean to - but thats just the side effect of the religion you follow

.

I'm not sure what you refer to as intolerance. If you are referring to opposition to sin, or oppostion to abandonement of God's instruction for us, I don't think that's negative, I think it's the opposite. If you are referring to opposition to free will, consider this; you have the freedom of choice to follow God's Way or not. If His Way is the absolute best path you could possibly follow, the best way to support all of existence, the best way for you to live your life, why would you choose a different way?

every religion has to claim to be truth - to be the one true god. why discount the others? - christiaity has nothing new in terms of what it teaches - those lessons were already there. is it because this one is popular where you live at the moment

Faith.

thanks for proving my point.

i can expand if you want?

[Jtini87]

It helped people at that time to survive. Civilization would be as you know it if it wasn't for the "god of war". The point is it was important at that time because people needed it.

Your initial post was really interesting.
Though I don't have anything to add just that how true it sounded and what you also mention as, to consider all this when
thinking of religion.

Verrrry Interestinggg

well i think mankind has gone wrong in what it deems important. if we consider mankind as part of "life" in general - then life is unique in the universe as far as we know. until we know what the universe is about - survival is the most important thing to consider. but we have moved away from survival as being the key thing in our lives. both in terms of indiduals and as a whole.

Hello, what a fiery conversation we have it, hmm I see what they say about the internet it is not entirely useless, pretty exciting
well my response to you on mankind is that there is no wrong way or right way of living. To understand your own personal growth is to understand the growth of a nation. When you see yourself in other you see that overall things will come along to new merit and new crimes. It's a personal experience but with an innate same theme just a different layer. There are harsh realities but it exsist so we know what it good and what is not mostly favor.
Religion, I have my own view but value it just like I value my kindergaden class, without it I wouldn't have learn how to feel my soul and to identify it but it's like staying in school or choosing to explore. I could go on forever but won't.

[7Believer]

thanks for proving my point.

i can expand if you want?

I would like to know your opinions on my posts, as I seek to teach you.

[The Eagle]

thanks for proving my point.

i can expand if you want?

I would like to know your opinions on my posts, as I seek to teach you.

not sure i can take you seriously but ok i will play.....

I believe to change God from what is taught about Him, from The Church and The Bible, to the extent that you have, is also to deny His existence. The Church may make mistakes, but it is the closest organisation to Him, and does represent Him. I don't think he would let it sway too far from the truth.

The same as The Church.

God has given us instruction through religion. To abandon his instruction, isn't that what the devil desires?

To call a sinner a sinner isn't an insult. Likewise, I think to call a hypocrite a hypocrite isn't an insult. It's a factual description.

There are directions toward God. He has provided them for us. You discredit the representation of God based on a theory. Isn't doubt the opposite of faith?

I'm not sure what you refer to as intolerance. If you are referring to opposition to sin, or oppostion to abandonement of God's instruction for us, I don't think that's negative, I think it's the opposite. If you are referring to opposition to free will, consider this; you have the freedom of choice to follow God's Way or not. If His Way is the absolute best path you could possibly follow, the best way to support all of existence, the best way for you to live your life, why would you choose a different way?

Faith.

so the church may make mistakes but its the closest organisation to him and god would not let it stray too far........ right so where does child rape fit into gods religion then?? i mean if god would not allow it to stray too far from the truth - and the chruch is raping children and then covering it up - god must of meant for that to happen yes?? i mean god has done nohting to fix it - as the church represents god.....

the one true god - you answer the same as the church - what church would that be - exactly then? - every religion has claimed to be one true god - most if not all had organised religion behind it. so the one true god you are referring to is the one you believe in - and not the one true gods that millions upon millions in the past have followed yeah? - i mean even gods chosen people the jews followed that god for all that time - but they were wrong - funny how god did not correct them before isnt it....

factual description....... well...... shall we go back to where that came from - there was nothing insulting about what was said. you only found it insulting because of your own personal faith - and further questioned the wisdom involved.

i am chosing a diffeerent way to YOU - not to god. you do not represent god when you talk. again intolerance - its the mind set that you are speaking for god - "trying to help people find god" - no you are trying to get people to believe in what you believe in. god has nothing to do with what you are talking about. to claim "one true god" - if that is not a grounding for intolerance i suggest you think more and have blind faith less.

also doubt is key to wisdom. blind faith breeds ignorance.

as for faith - are you're saying all those millions and millions of people that have believed in another god - were all wrong in thier faith. thats a pretty egotystical statement. your faith is stronger - so thats why you must try and rubbish every other religion around now and historically?? but its ok though - because the church says having that faith will bring you closer to god yeah? - i wonder what every other religion said.... oh the same damn thing.... funny that....

god does not want anything - god does not need followers or faith. religion does. think about it.

[Jtini87]

thanks for proving my point.

i can expand if you want?

I would like to know your opinions on my posts, as I seek to teach you.

not sure i can take you seriously but ok i will play.....

I believe to change God from what is taught about Him, from The Church and The Bible, to the extent that you have, is also to deny His existence. The Church may make mistakes, but it is the closest organisation to Him, and does represent Him. I don't think he would let it sway too far from the truth.

The same as The Church.

God has given us instruction through religion. To abandon his instruction, isn't that what the devil desires?

To call a sinner a sinner isn't an insult. Likewise, I think to call a hypocrite a hypocrite isn't an insult. It's a factual description.

There are directions toward God. He has provided them for us. You discredit the representation of God based on a theory. Isn't doubt the opposite of faith?

I'm not sure what you refer to as intolerance. If you are referring to opposition to sin, or oppostion to abandonement of God's instruction for us, I don't think that's negative, I think it's the opposite. If you are referring to opposition to free will, consider this; you have the freedom of choice to follow God's Way or not. If His Way is the absolute best path you could possibly follow, the best way to support all of existence, the best way for you to live your life, why would you choose a different way?

Faith.

so the church may make mistakes but its the closest organisation to him and god would not let it stray too far........ right so where does child rape fit into gods religion then?? i mean if god would not allow it to stray too far from the truth - and the chruch is raping children and then covering it up - god must of meant for that to happen yes?? i mean god has done nohting to fix it - as the church represents god.....

the one true god - you answer the same as the church - what church would that be - exactly then? - every religion has claimed to be one true god - most if not all had organised religion behind it. so the one true god you are referring to is the one you believe in - and not the one true gods that millions upon millions in the past have followed yeah? - i mean even gods chosen people the jews followed that god for all that time - but they were wrong - funny how god did not correct them before isnt it....

factual description....... well...... shall we go back to where that came from - there was nothing insulting about what was said. you only found it insulting because of your own personal faith - and further questioned the wisdom involved.

i am chosing a diffeerent way to YOU - not to god. you do not represent god when you talk. again intolerance - its the mind set that you are speaking for god - "trying to help people find god" - no you are trying to get people to believe in what you believe in. god has nothing to do with what you are talking about. to claim "one true god" - if that is not a grounding for intolerance i suggest you think more and have blind faith less.

also doubt is key to wisdom. blind faith breeds ignorance.

as for faith - are you're saying all those millions and millions of people that have believed in another god - were all wrong in thier faith. thats a pretty egotystical statement. your faith is stronger - so thats why you must try and rubbish every other religion around now and historically?? but its ok though - because the church says having that faith will bring you closer to god yeah? - i wonder what every other religion said.... oh the same damn thing.... funny that....

god does not want anything - god does not need followers or faith. religion does. think about it.

This is a typical response, both of you...You can't disreguard every religion demissing others, I just heard a speech from the Dali llama saying how if he was reborn and if he could choose he would choose beside buddhist, it would be Christianity. Only because it has a system that endorses education.
It's so easy to look at all the human flaws in the world and cry out there is no god or what is the point of religion...yet there is a point in this blind faith because when your eyes has open can you handle the truth of reality? Who to say what is true?

Is it not what we feel true? Ask yourself what is the value for all these phases of life we go through? Do we not come out alive? More so alive to even experience what you encounter

There is humaness and there is sacredness they are both the same but different
sacredness of something innately already there, religion, ex. ten commandments are common sense, good deeds
God is the creator, like the sun is the creator, all common sense things.
Before disreguarding religion see where it started from the core going back to the evolving monkey outlook.
Did this outlook help evolution?
How can this outlook help now?
Think of the different religions like countries some are more develope others are advance in it's ways.

7believer your not the only person I've heard this from I had a conversation just like this with a friend of mind and she came to the conclusion that a new religion should be made all together. She is not religious at all she just knows that if they was a religion reaching out to people in a more real honest way then they would be more happier people.

I feel like countries religions will get more establish Christianity needs a reformation, no doubt about it, where does the change start that is the question? It will happen. The real question is are we just touching the surface with religion?
What if we were meant to take religion in our thoughts and live our life with what is true in our soul? What if religion was just the schooling just to feel the soul overall and we were suppose live in recreational ways with the soul intent?

It's a wierd time now eveything is boiling down to a greater reslove. Sorry if I invaded i just like the fire in you guys

[7Believer]

so the church may make mistakes but its the closest organisation to him and god would not let it stray too far........ right so where does child rape fit into gods religion then?? i mean if god would not allow it to stray too far from the truth - and the chruch is raping children and then covering it up - god must of meant for that to happen yes?? i mean god has done nohting to fix it - as the church represents god.....

I believe in God, and I also believe in the existence of the devil. I don't think it impossible to believe that all The Church's corruption, and even humanity's, comes from the devil and his demons. In the beginning he was the one that corrupted Eve. Without him, humanity was perfect. Maybe it still is.

the one true god - you answer the same as the church - what church would that be - exactly then? - every religion has claimed to be one true god - most if not all had organised religion behind it. so the one true god you are referring to is the one you believe in - and not the one true gods that millions upon millions in the past have followed yeah? - i mean even gods chosen people the jews followed that god for all that time - but they were wrong - funny how god did not correct them before isnt it....

The Catholic Church. I consider myself to be Christian. As far as I know, most other religions do not have one such as Our Savior Lord Jesus Christ, sent by God Himself, to protect us from the devil's tricks (like false dieties). This explains the existence of false religions, and even explains that God acknowledges we need to be saved. I do not claim all that other religions produce are tricks of evil. I believe they do produce positivity. That could be a result of God's mercy; even though worshipped under a false identity, filling other religions with love, making them not too different from Christianity.

(I know Islam believes in Lord Jesus, but denies His existence as God's Son. They worship Muhammad more, who fought in battles, while Jesus refused to harm even his enemies. They also deny His Sacrifice for us, something predicted many years before Muhammad. I hope these facts aren't taken offensively.)

factual description....... well...... shall we go back to where that came from - there was nothing insulting about what was said. you only found it insulting because of your own personal faith - and further questioned the wisdom involved.

whatever religion you are talking about i am reminded that a wise man once said: "why would i want to enter christian heaven?? - thats where all the intolerant christian assholes will be....."

I consider an insult to be ill intended. Given the large availability of other words to choose from to state your disapproval of Christianity, and the inclusion of a vulgar word (widely known as vulgar), I consider that to be ill intended. To have ill intent towards others is not only sinful, but unwise. You posted about practical elements of rules:

most religions have don't kill, don't steal, don't cheat on your missus. etc. These are not religious rules - they are rules for society to maintain order - not many would argue with them

All three of those things are based on ill intent. If you still agree with your post, then you see my point. I also find it unwise because if the speaker does believe in heaven and hell, they would abandon heaven due to opposition to sin, that being what Christians oppose, besides simple mistakes like the misuse of a word, in which case the oppostion would be to positively teach you. I again find it unwise in that the use of the word intolerant is hypocritical, for the speaker proves to be quite intolerant.

i am chosing a diffeerent way to YOU - not to god. you do not represent god when you talk. again intolerance - its the mind set that you are speaking for god - "trying to help people find god" - no you are trying to get people to believe in what you believe in. god has nothing to do with what you are talking about. to claim "one true god" - if that is not a grounding for intolerance i suggest you think more and have blind faith less.

god does not want anything - god does not need followers or faith. religion does. think about it.

You can see by the parts in italics what I'm trying to point out. I love you, but you are a hypocrite. Hopefully you'll remember what I posted previously about the use of the word hypocrite, and realise it is not ill intended. I understand how your thoughts can be manipulated and trick you. You may not agree with me, but I credit it to the works of evil. Being Christian, I think in teaching what God taught us to teach, we do represent God. We pass on his message, and agree with it. I acknowledge that some Christians do make mistakes, and again I blame the tricks of the devil and his demons. I don't think that makes us innocent, more like unaware accomplices. Wrong is still done, and we still play a part in it, even if we mean well.

also doubt is key to wisdom. blind faith breeds ignorance.

Blind faith isn't good, and I hope my faith isn't blind. Doubt always leaves a 50/50 chance of being incorrect. Wisdom is always correct.

as for faith - are you're saying all those millions and millions of people that have believed in another god - were all wrong in thier faith. thats a pretty egotystical statement. your faith is stronger - so thats why you must try and rubbish every other religion around now and historically?? but its ok though - because the church says having that faith will bring you closer to god yeah? - i wonder what every other religion said.... oh the same damn thing.... funny that....

Faith in The One True God. There may be some mistaken facts, but as far as I know (and I apologise if I'm mistaken), many of us still worship The One True God. I only think the religions are mistaken, not the faith. I do think there is a difference between the two. We still have the desire to worship Our Creator, only the way we do so is different.

I've already explained a reason to believe in Christianity as opposed to other religions in a previous post. For more reason, consider this; with the increase in attacks on the Catholic Church, and increase in abandonment of Christianity, there is also an increase in sin and crime. You can think it only a coincidence, but it is what Christianity teaches. The rise of evil corruption before the second coming of Our Lord.

7believer your not the only person I've heard this from I had a conversation just like this with a friend of mind and she came to the conclusion that a new religion should be made all together. She is not religious at all she just knows that if they was a religion reaching out to people in a more real honest way then they would be more happier people.

I feel like countries religions will get more establish Christianity needs a reformation, no doubt about it, where does the change start that is the question? It will happen. The real question is are we just touching the surface with religion?
What if we were meant to take religion in our thoughts and live our life with what is true in our soul? What if religion was just the schooling just to feel the soul overall and we were suppose live in recreational ways with the soul intent?

Jtini87, I'm not sure if Christianity needs changes, but if it does, I believe God will see them through. If not, I think it will do until the second coming of Our Lord.

[Jtini87]

Jtini87, I'm not sure if Christianity needs changes, but if it does, I believe God will see them through. If not, I think it will do until the second coming of Our Lord.

I read in an article of women trying to petition to the pope to allow priest to marry and have children bc women were coming forward about having sexual relations with priest. Technically way back in the day they use to be able to get marry and have a family. In the human aspect of it I feel it does, slight changes so everyone can be happy and little kids don't get molested.

[sheepdove]

Jtini87, I'm not sure if Christianity needs changes, but if it does, I believe God will see them through. If not, I think it will do until the second coming of Our Lord.

I read in an article of women trying to petition to the pope to allow priest to marry and have children bc women were coming forward about having sexual relations with priest. Technically way back in the day they use to be able to get marry and have a family. In the human aspect of it I feel it does, slight changes so everyone can be happy and little kids don't get molested.

God never said don't marry. The church did. Jesus didn't either. That is a doctrine of man. Those who follows such doctrines of man Jesus condemns to eternal hell. God said multiply and to do that you have to have sex. Jesus said a man should take a wife when he leaves his family and go on his own. To not do so as the church doesn't shows servitude to Satan. Thus it proves that the church is the servant of Satan. Sadly enough Satan rules. For now leastways.

[greenhavoc]

depends what Kratos you refer to of course....... if however you meant the videogame

[7Believer]

I read in an article of women trying to petition to the pope to allow priest to marry and have children bc women were coming forward about having sexual relations with priest. Technically way back in the day they use to be able to get marry and have a family. In the human aspect of it I feel it does, slight changes so everyone can be happy and little kids don't get molested.

When I have a serious question like this, I turn to God. I believe His answer for me was yes, priests should be allowed to marry. I think this will come to pass shortly.

God never said don't marry. The church did. Jesus didn't either. That is a doctrine of man. Those who follows such doctrines of man Jesus condemns to eternal hell. God said multiply and to do that you have to have sex. Jesus said a man should take a wife when he leaves his family and go on his own. To not do so as the church doesn't shows servitude to Satan. Thus it proves that the church is the servant of Satan. Sadly enough Satan rules. For now leastways.

Sheepdove, if you truly wish to serve Lord Jesus, please seek out an answer from Him concerning whether or not you are correct about The Church being evil. I believe you are mistaken. The Church may be tricked sometimes, but it does directly oppose satan. For you to oppose The Church, and everything it provides for us (such as The Holy Eucharist), do you see how you may be being tricked yourself?

[sheepdove]

I read in an article of women trying to petition to the pope to allow priest to marry and have children bc women were coming forward about having sexual relations with priest. Technically way back in the day they use to be able to get marry and have a family. In the human aspect of it I feel it does, slight changes so everyone can be happy and little kids don't get molested.

When I have a serious question like this, I turn to God. I believe His answer for me was yes, priests should be allowed to marry. I think this will come to pass shortly.

God never said don't marry. The church did. Jesus didn't either. That is a doctrine of man. Those who follows such doctrines of man Jesus condemns to eternal hell. God said multiply and to do that you have to have sex. Jesus said a man should take a wife when he leaves his family and go on his own. To not do so as the church doesn't shows servitude to Satan. Thus it proves that the church is the servant of Satan. Sadly enough Satan rules. For now leastways.

Sheepdove, if you truly wish to serve Lord Jesus, please seek out an answer from Him concerning whether or not you are correct about The Church being evil. I believe you are mistaken. The Church may be tricked sometimes, but it does directly oppose satan. For you to oppose The Church, and everything it provides for us (such as The Holy Eucharist), do you see how you may be being tricked yourself?

Is that what the church said to the disciples of Jesus before it killed them? The church kills. Jesus didn't. The Vatican even had it's own private army of killer mercenaries. Oh yes thou shalt not kill so kill all you want since you're with the church. It has it's own rules. Man's doctrines. Not God's. David's rules. So in God's name let's kill. Baptist can kill Catholic, Catholic can kill Baptist, and everybody else can kill everybody else. David the liar saId God said to kill. Remember? If you served God the church would kill you like it did Jesus and his disciples. Be doing you a favor by sending you to join Christ in Heaven.You're stuck here in this hell called earth like me so you're out of luck. Enjoy. And especially enjoy how easy it is to get to heaven now according to the church. Jesus made out that it was hard. Like putting a camel thru the eye of a needle or some such. Glory be. Sin all you want and you can still get to heaven as long as you keep asking God's forgiveness. If your God is Satan that is. Those who follows man's doctrines killing included Jesus called servants of Satan. Oh my. You don't say.

[7Believer]

Is that what the church said to the disciples of Jesus before it killed them? The church kills. Jesus didn't. The Vatican even had it's own private army of killer mercenaries. Oh yes thou shalt not kill so kill all you want since you're with the church. It has it's own rules. Man's doctrines. Not God's. David's rules. So in God's name let's kill. Baptist can kill Catholic, Catholic can kill Baptist, and everybody else can kill everybody else. David the liar saId God said to kill. Remember? If you served God the church would kill you like it did Jesus and his disciples. Be doing you a favor by sending you to join Christ in Heaven.You're stuck here in this hell called earth like me so you're out of luck. Enjoy. And especially enjoy how easy it is to get to heaven now according to the church. Jesus made out that it was hard. Like putting a camel thru the eye of a needle or some such. Glory be. Sin all you want and you can still get to heaven as long as you keep asking God's forgiveness. If your God is Satan that is. Those who follows man's doctrines killing included Jesus called servants of Satan. Oh my. You don't say

.

Lord Jesus's disciples were of The Church. The Church doesn't represent those that killed Our Lord Jesus, it represents Our Lord Jesus. You confuse the Church with the hypocrites that killed Our Lord. As for David, I think he did intend to serve God. Maybe killing was necessary in those days. If you seek the truth about The Church and The Bible, again I suggest seeking God for the answer.

[The Eagle]

7Believer - for all of your beliefs that you have suggested here - there is a key and practical element to them. the church - the catholic church you follow has to shun EVERY other religion, so of course you believe evil is inolved with my beliefs. thats the practical side of religious beliefs showing themselves again. it is the political nature of religion. think about it - you limit god when you decide god is only this or that and can only do things one way. mankind wants power - not god.

and you are correct about one thing - i am being hypocritical for not tolerating intolerance. but you know what - i can live with that. your beliefs the one true god idea (that is in every religon) - advocates intolerance - again practcal side, but then you have to be your passive aggressive self - side effect of the religion you follow.

to say those that kill in the name of jesus dont follow your religion - ignores catholic history. further more if the pope protects child rapists like he has done - how you can still say it is the closest organisation to god is beyond me. - but thats again what the religion is all about - replacing a king/emporer with a pope. kings used to be the closest thing to god. again it is a progression of beliefs. how much evil does the organisation closest to god have to do before you call it evil?

i will dissagree with you on one further point - there is not one single new element that jesus brought to the world. you will find all elements in history before jesus even existed. - now you can say the devil was invovled with that - fine thats your belief. to hold that belief you have to ignore so much of history - again that does not sit right with me.

as for the so called insult - i apologise if you are offended. but it sits pretty well true and wise - when you think about it. - i tell you what god was not offended - why would you be? did you not offer the other cheek? no you didnt. a few more hail mary's for you next time you are in your pagan church.

[sheepdove]

Is that what the church said to the disciples of Jesus before it killed them? The church kills. Jesus didn't. The Vatican even had it's own private army of killer mercenaries. Oh yes thou shalt not kill so kill all you want since you're with the church. It has it's own rules. Man's doctrines. Not God's. David's rules. So in God's name let's kill. Baptist can kill Catholic, Catholic can kill Baptist, and everybody else can kill everybody else. David the liar saId God said to kill. Remember? If you served God the church would kill you like it did Jesus and his disciples. Be doing you a favor by sending you to join Christ in Heaven.You're stuck here in this hell called earth like me so you're out of luck. Enjoy. And especially enjoy how easy it is to get to heaven now according to the church. Jesus made out that it was hard. Like putting a camel thru the eye of a needle or some such. Glory be. Sin all you want and you can still get to heaven as long as you keep asking God's forgiveness. If your God is Satan that is. Those who follows man's doctrines killing included Jesus called servants of Satan. Oh my. You don't say

.

Lord Jesus's disciples were of The Church. The Church doesn't represent those that killed Our Lord Jesus, it represents Our Lord Jesus. You confuse the Church with the hypocrites that killed Our Lord. As for David, I think he did intend to serve God. Maybe killing was necessary in those days. If you seek the truth about The Church and The Bible, again I suggest seeking God for the answer.

Jesus was the disciples church. Not THE church. THe church of today is just a hand me down version of yhe one who lilled Jesus. It's ancestor. That's why it never followed the thou shalt now kill rule. Why the Catholics, the Vatican, had it's own personal army of killer mercenaries. It made out the expression the Lord is my shepherd a lie and all of the rest of the Lord's Prayer as well. Showed Satan as it's shepherd. Satan allows killing but The Lord doesn't.

[The Eagle]

Jesus was the disciples church. Not THE church. THe church of today is just a hand me down version of yhe one who lilled Jesus. It's ancestor. That's why it never followed the thou shalt now kill rule. Why the Catholics, the Vatican, had it's own personal army of killer mercenaries. It made out the expression the Lord is my shepherd a lie and all of the rest of the Lord's Prayer as well. Showed Satan as it's shepherd. Satan allows killing but The Lord doesn't.

lol - what??? jesus wasnt against the vatican. it didnt exist when he was alive!!

plus the "lord" does allows killing.......... hence all the killing..............

[sheepdove]

Jesus was the disciples church. Not THE church. THe church of today is just a hand me down version of yhe one who lilled Jesus. It's ancestor. That's why it never followed the thou shalt now kill rule. Why the Catholics, the Vatican, had it's own personal army of killer mercenaries. It made out the expression the Lord is my shepherd a lie and all of the rest of the Lord's Prayer as well. Showed Satan as it's shepherd. Satan allows killing but The Lord doesn't.

lol - what??? jesus wasnt against the vatican. it didnt exist when he was alive!!

plus the "lord" does allows killing.......... hence all the killing..............

The Lord Satan does but not the Lord God. David the liar and murderer led the church into killing. Jesus tried to lead it out of it. The Vatican follows the same doctrines of man and not God's thus the curse Jesus put on those who follows man's doctrines is on it. Thou shalt not kill. Army's are for killing. If you have a army you are a killer. Touche. The shepherd is the protector. Protection does not necessarily mean killing though. It could mean love. Turning aside a killer rather than killing. We are all God's children so God would not want to kill one of his children to save another of his children. He'd want both to live. We deny him what he wants though. Let those who thinks God would want his children killing each other have their children killing each other. Let those that don't have their children liveing in love.

[The Eagle]

The Lord Satan does but not the Lord God. David the liar and murderer led the church into killing. Jesus tried to lead it out of it. The Vatican follows the same doctrines of man and not God's thus the curse Jesus put on those who follows man's doctrines is on it. Thou shalt not kill. Army's are for killing. If you have a army you are a killer. Touche. The shepherd is the protector. Protection does not necessarily mean killing though. It could mean love. Turning aside a killer rather than killing. We are all God's children so God would not want to kill one of his children to save another of his children. He'd want both to live. We deny him what he wants though. Let those who thinks God would want his children killing each other have their children killing each other. Let those that don't have their children liveing in love.

Sheepdove - god must allow killing and murder to happen - otherwise there would be no killing surely?? unless you are saying this god of yours could not stop killing even if he wanted to??

see this is where the practical elements of any religion fall down. put yourself in a place where a mass murderer is going to kill you and your family. the only way to stop that happen is to kill the mass murderer. do you lay your life and family down - or do you defend you family? you talk as if you would lay down yours and your families life..........

[sheepdove]

The Lord Satan does but not the Lord God. David the liar and murderer led the church into killing. Jesus tried to lead it out of it. The Vatican follows the same doctrines of man and not God's thus the curse Jesus put on those who follows man's doctrines is on it. Thou shalt not kill. Army's are for killing. If you have a army you are a killer. Touche. The shepherd is the protector. Protection does not necessarily mean killing though. It could mean love. Turning aside a killer rather than killing. We are all God's children so God would not want to kill one of his children to save another of his children. He'd want both to live. We deny him what he wants though. Let those who thinks God would want his children killing each other have their children killing each other. Let those that don't have their children liveing in love.

Sheepdove - god must allow killing and murder to happen - otherwise there would be no killing surely?? unless you are saying this god of yours could not stop killing even if he wanted to??

see this is where the practical elements of any religion fall down. put yourself in a place where a mass murderer is going to kill you and your family. the only way to stop that happen is to kill the mass murderer. do you lay your life and family down - or do you defend you family? you talk as if you would lay down yours and your families life..........

The Earth can't or don't stop the killing. Neither does the moon. The sun either. So does that mean that they don't exist to you either? Great. Now I won't ever get a sunburn again. Just cause something can do something doesn't mean it will. The way you talk at times I can easily imagine people wanting to smash your face in. That doesn't mean that they do or will though. Maybe you should tell everyone you meet that they should if you think they should just because they can. I'm sure they'd appreciate that. God turns his back. That doesn't mean that he doesn't exist though.

[7Believer]

7Believer - for all of your beliefs that you have suggested here - there is a key and practical element to them. the church - the catholic church you follow has to shun EVERY other religion, so of course you believe evil is inolved with my beliefs. thats the practical side of religious beliefs showing themselves again. it is the political nature of religion. think about it - you limit god when you decide god is only this or that and can only do things one way. mankind wants power - not god.

and you are correct about one thing - i am being hypocritical for not tolerating intolerance. but you know what - i can live with that. your beliefs the one true god idea (that is in every religon) - advocates intolerance - again practcal side, but then you have to be your passive aggressive self - side effect of the religion you follow.

Christianity doesn't limit God. We acknowledge Him as The Most Powerful. We oppose false teachings of Him. You say that is wrong, and we should accept other teachings, even though false as I believe. Do you see how that spreads chaos? To claim that all religions are true is contradicting. To keep us divided in our beliefs of God keeps us from harmony. With The One True God, doesn't it make sense to you that there would only be The One True Way?

to say those that kill in the name of jesus dont follow your religion - ignores catholic history. further more if the pope protects child rapists like he has done - how you can still say it is the closest organisation to god is beyond me. - but thats again what the religion is all about - replacing a king/emporer with a pope. kings used to be the closest thing to god. again it is a progression of beliefs. how much evil does the organisation closest to god have to do before you call it evil?

I've already explained about the influence of the devil. You admit that evil exists. If you do not believe in the devil, do you offer a practical explanation as to why we enjoy sin so much? Violence is promoted through movies, music and games, and these are promoted through stores and commercials, yet we all know that violence is wrong. Why would society promote breaking it's own laws?

i will dissagree with you on one further point - there is not one single new element that jesus brought to the world. you will find all elements in history before jesus even existed. - now you can say the devil was invovled with that - fine thats your belief. to hold that belief you have to ignore so much of history - again that does not sit right with me.

You claim that Our Lord was unecessary. If His teachings were already known, why weren't we following them when He arrived? Please seek inside yourself as to the true reason you wish to discredit Christianity. I already know the reason to be a trick of the devil, but I would like to know how you think you justify yourself in your pursuit to discredit Christianity (considering you are so opposed to intolerance, yet you go beyond intolerance and seek to remove altogether the beliefs of Christianity).

as for the so called insult - i apologise if you are offended. but it sits pretty well true and wise - when you think about it. - i tell you what god was not offended - why would you be? did you not offer the other cheek? no you didnt. a few more hail mary's for you next time you are in your pagan church.

You mentioned in another post about me not speaking for God, yet you do so frequently. You have been proved a hypocrite, yet still think yourself correct. I think Our Lord's lesson about turning the other cheek was to teach us not to retaliate, but to assist our offenders, like I attempted to assist you in showing you the errors of your ways.

[7Believer]

Jesus was the disciples church. Not THE church. THe church of today is just a hand me down version of yhe one who lilled Jesus. It's ancestor. That's why it never followed the thou shalt now kill rule. Why the Catholics, the Vatican, had it's own personal army of killer mercenaries. It made out the expression the Lord is my shepherd a lie and all of the rest of the Lord's Prayer as well. Showed Satan as it's shepherd. Satan allows killing but The Lord doesn't.

Do you suggest then that all the servants of the Church only pretend to follow Lord Jesus, and only pretend to follow The Ten Commandments, including, "Thou shalt not kill"? Do you only oppose The Church because you've heard that it has an army? I don't think that is true, and if it is, that would only make that particular choice a mistake, not the whole Church a mistake.

[Tal]

Jesus was the disciples church. Not THE church. THe church of today is just a hand me down version of yhe one who lilled Jesus. It's ancestor. That's why it never followed the thou shalt now kill rule. Why the Catholics, the Vatican, had it's own personal army of killer mercenaries. It made out the expression the Lord is my shepherd a lie and all of the rest of the Lord's Prayer as well. Showed Satan as it's shepherd. Satan allows killing but The Lord doesn't.

Do you suggest then that all the servants of the Church only pretend to follow Lord Jesus, and only pretend to follow The Ten Commandments, including, "Thou shalt not kill"? Do you only oppose The Church because you've heard that it has an army? I don't think that is true, and if it is, that would only make that particular choice a mistake, not the whole Church a mistake.

Wow. You missed about 1000 years of Catholic history. Crusades ring a bell? The Inquisition perhaps?

[sheepdove]

Jesus was the disciples church. Not THE church. THe church of today is just a hand me down version of yhe one who lilled Jesus. It's ancestor. That's why it never followed the thou shalt now kill rule. Why the Catholics, the Vatican, had it's own personal army of killer mercenaries. It made out the expression the Lord is my shepherd a lie and all of the rest of the Lord's Prayer as well. Showed Satan as it's shepherd. Satan allows killing but The Lord doesn't.

Do you suggest then that all the servants of the Church only pretend to follow Lord Jesus, and only pretend to follow The Ten Commandments, including, "Thou shalt not kill"? Do you only oppose The Church because you've heard that it has an army? I don't think that is true, and if it is, that would only make that particular choice a mistake, not the whole Church a mistake.

They've been deceived and Jesus did say he was a church. Just as he said call no other rabbi but him. He said he was the master. The church claims it is. Pope's, rabbi's, etc all claim such for according to Jesus such means master and only he is master.

[7Believer]

They've been deceived and Jesus did say he was a church. Just as he said call no other rabbi but him. He said he was the master. The church claims it is. Pope's, rabbi's, etc all claim such for according to Jesus such means master and only he is master.

I don't think the Pope claims to be greater than Lord Jesus. I think he, along with all other servants of The Church, recognise themselves to be servants of Our Lord; desiring to do His will, and follow His teachings.

Wow. You missed about 1000 years of Catholic history. Crusades ring a bell? The Inquisition perhaps?

I apologise for not making myself clear. I was referring to The Church in present day. As for the past, I think those times are recognised as mistakes by The Church. They appear to not follow the teachings of Our Lord, and therefore are not what present day Christians desire. If The Church broke God's Law, then the leaders responsible are obviously not the ones Christians seek to follow. As for Christians during the time, if the devil was able to trick The Church leaders, I don't think it impossible that he wasn't also able to trick their followers. Consider this; why would a people devoted to pleasing God oppose His law, if not for being tricked?

[sheepdove]

They've been deceived and Jesus did say he was a church. Just as he said call no other rabbi but him. He said he was the master. The church claims it is. Pope's, rabbi's, etc all claim such for according to Jesus such means master and only he is master.

I don't think the Pope claims to be greater than Lord Jesus. I think he, along with all other servants of The Church, recognise themselves to be servants of Our Lord; desiring to do His will, and follow His teachings.

Wow. You missed about 1000 years of Catholic history. Crusades ring a bell? The Inquisition perhaps?

I apologise for not making myself clear. I was referring to The Church in present day. As for the past, I think those times are recognised as mistakes by The Church. They appear to not follow the teachings of Our Lord, and therefore are not what present day Christians desire. If The Church broke God's Law, then the leaders responsible are obviously not the ones Christians seek to follow. As for Christians during the time, if the devil was able to trick The Church leaders, I don't think it impossible that he wasn't also able to trick their followers. Consider this; why would a people devoted to pleasing God oppose His law, if not for being tricked?

The Pope is considered the 5th most powerful person in the world and believe me he knows it. He uses his power. The modern church is as the old one and it teaches to kill and it is blessing killers before battle when thou shalt not kill. Because the church follow David. The one Jesus had told the disciples didn't go to heaven. The one in the earth still.

[The Eagle]

Christianity doesn't limit God. We acknowledge Him as The Most Powerful. We oppose false teachings of Him. You say that is wrong, and we should accept other teachings, even though false as I believe. Do you see how that spreads chaos? To claim that all religions are true is contradicting. To keep us divided in our beliefs of God keeps us from harmony. With The One True God, doesn't it make sense to you that there would only be The One True Way?

I've already explained about the influence of the devil. You admit that evil exists. If you do not believe in the devil, do you offer a practical explanation as to why we enjoy sin so much? Violence is promoted through movies, music and games, and these are promoted through stores and commercials, yet we all know that violence is wrong. Why would society promote breaking it's own laws?

You claim that Our Lord was unecessary. If His teachings were already known, why weren't we following them when He arrived? Please seek inside yourself as to the true reason you wish to discredit Christianity. I already know the reason to be a trick of the devil, but I would like to know how you think you justify yourself in your pursuit to discredit Christianity (considering you are so opposed to intolerance, yet you go beyond intolerance and seek to remove altogether the beliefs of Christianity).

You mentioned in another post about me not speaking for God, yet you do so frequently. You have been proved a hypocrite, yet still think yourself correct. I think Our Lord's lesson about turning the other cheek was to teach us not to retaliate, but to assist our offenders, like I attempted to assist you in showing you the errors of your ways.

of course christianity limits god. you limit god to one way. religion (any religion) is like a finger poining to god. you as a catholic unfortunatley focus on the finger - not god. evil exists as a judgement on past actions. there is no outside force of evil. satan exists only in the minds of believers like you. now you can go on to say satan tricks and makes peopple he doesnt exist - but then why is this evil cult you follow not a trick of satan again??

there is nothing evil about movies - there is nothing evil about violence until we as humans judge it. movies do not promote violence.

people were practicing what jesus taught hundrends of years before jesus lived. where do you think he learnt it from?? as for why were we not all following it - we still aren't. anyway back to christianity and moving away from what jesus actually practiced - rome made this pagan version of jesus - fame spreads with the power rome had - christianity is forced on people through murder violence etc etc. but even that has a practical reason why rome wanted christianity - one empire one religion. a religion that encourages love thy enemy - of course rome would want that relligion - it helps surpress populations under thier control... practical reason why that particular religion was favourerd again.

well you are proving yourself quite the hypocrit too. you calling me a hypocrit doesnt weigh very heavily on my conscience..... and no i dont speak for god. i speak for mankind. god does not have a voice. mankind does.

[The Eagle]

The Earth can't or don't stop the killing. Neither does the moon. The sun either. So does that mean that they don't exist to you either? Great. Now I won't ever get a sunburn again. Just cause something can do something doesn't mean it will. The way you talk at times I can easily imagine people wanting to smash your face in. That doesn't mean that they do or will though. Maybe you should tell everyone you meet that they should if you think they should just because they can. I'm sure they'd appreciate that. God turns his back. That doesn't mean that he doesn't exist though.

no one is claiming the earth, moon or sun can stop the killing are they??

and anyone can come try punch me in the face if they like - i will remind anyone attempting though i am not christian - so i wont offer the other cheek and i will punch you back.....harder.

if god can stop the killing but wont - or doesnt - then he "allows" killing Sheepdove. its called logic - try it sometime.

[7Believer]

of course christianity limits god. you limit god to one way. religion (any religion) is like a finger poining to god. you as a catholic unfortunatley focus on the finger - not god. evil exists as a judgement on past actions. there is no outside force of evil. satan exists only in the minds of believers like you. now you can go on to say satan tricks and makes peopple he doesnt exist - but then why is this evil cult you follow not a trick of satan again??

To limit God would be to claim He is not all powerful. I am only limiting false ideas of God. There is a difference. To limit ideas of God is to promote only one idea of God. Is that not what you yourself are doing? You claim God is not what Christians or other religions believe, but is what you believe. This constant hypocrisy you reveal in your posts should help you realise that you are being tricked. You call The Church a cult of evil, indicating that all those who practice unconditional love and forgiveness, benevolence and virtue, are evil. Do you not see the faulty logic behind your ideas?

there is nothing evil about movies - there is nothing evil about violence until we as humans judge it. movies do not promote violence.

To enjoy people killing each other, I consider that evil. Are you claiming that our judgement of violence being wrong is wrong? If so, you again contradict your own posts on practicality. I hope that with enough of these mistakes being pointed out, you will soon begin to believe me when I tell you that you are being tricked.

people were practicing what jesus taught hundrends of years before jesus lived. where do you think he learnt it from?? as for why were we not all following it - we still aren't. anyway back to christianity and moving away from what jesus actually practiced - rome made this pagan version of jesus - fame spreads with the power rome had - christianity is forced on people through murder violence etc etc. but even that has a practical reason why rome wanted christianity - one empire one religion. a religion that encourages love thy enemy - of course rome would want that relligion - it helps surpress populations under thier control... practical reason why that particular religion was favourerd again.

Where do you get your beliefs from about Christianity? Other people's theories? You seem very confident that your theories are true, but why? What backs your theories up? More theories? Your truths are actually just theories. The Church's truths are based on factual events. You can deny those events and claim The Church lies, but why? What provokes you not to believe an organisation based on honesty? Also, if followers of Our Lord weren't getting any responses from Him, why would we continue to follow Him? Please at least consider seeking out God for yourself.

well you are proving yourself quite the hypocrit too. you calling me a hypocrit doesnt weigh very heavily on my conscience..... and no i dont speak for god. i speak for mankind. god does not have a voice. mankind does.

I would like to know how I prove myself to be a hypocrite. By not caring about being hypocritical, you again show lack of intelligent judgement (yet the devil's corruption has you too full of arrogance to not consider the consequences of such actions). You contradict yourself yet again in your post, as I have shown with italics. Please understand that I love you Eagle, and am not trying to humiliate you or compete with you. I am only trying to teach you.

[7Believer]

The Pope is considered the 5th most powerful person in the world and believe me he knows it. He uses his power. The modern church is as the old one and it teaches to kill and it is blessing killers before battle when thou shalt not kill. Because the church follow David. The one Jesus had told the disciples didn't go to heaven. The one in the earth still.

If you are referring to past actions, I've already explained that I think The Church recognises it was wrong.

[sheepdove]

The Pope is considered the 5th most powerful person in the world and believe me he knows it. He uses his power. The modern church is as the old one and it teaches to kill and it is blessing killers before battle when thou shalt not kill. Because the church follow David. The one Jesus had told the disciples didn't go to heaven. The one in the earth still.

If you are referring to past actions, I've already explained that I think The Church recognises it was wrong.

Read Matthew 23. The church is always doing wrong. It has rabbi's. Only call Jesus rabbi the bible said. Rabbi means master. Maybe we should go out and kill those devils calling theirselves master. After all they are calling theirselves master now. Oh you wish to bow down to them. I wonder if that is why Jesus calls the church which follows man's doctrines servants of Satan. Beats me. At any rate Jesus said thou shalt not kill so christians ignore him and follow David in killing. The Crusades they killed like crazy in. The holocaust. Every chance they get to kill they kill. For the bible teaches them to follow David in killing. Because the the church includes killing in the bible by liars when God's law is thou shalt not kill. According to Jesus and Moses it is leastways. Not according to Satan's christian churches though. They have to teach killing. So David who is in hell has his law of killing ruleing the day. Because christians refuse to accept the fact that the bible was actually written to lead people away from Christ. To contort what the people learned from him and bring them back into the fold. Everyone knows Jesus said thou shalt not kill, turn the other cheek, do not tempt God ( by tempting fate), and run when they seek you do you harm. Jesus never ever told us to kill. Religious devils did. Lied and said God told them to kill. One lieing Devil named David never went to heaven even though he said he was God's favorite. I thought Lucifer was. Devils lie though. That's why they end up in hell. God has no favorites. That's all in the mind of devils. In truth christians follow the church not for Jesus is the church. They follow Satan and his church which killed Jesus. Christmas is the celebration of the death of Jesus by those who wanted him dead. Man's church which follows David (Satan). They are truly washed in his blood for his bloods is on their hands. They share in the guilt of his murder.