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Question on religion

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Question on religion

Postby ImaMonsta » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:20 pm

Ok..I've been trying to figure out what I believe, what makes sense to me, but everything either seems to have holes in it or I havn't read enuff on it to understand.
So for one, tell me about your religion. Any religion. Explain as much as you can, please.
Two, I have some questions. Mainlyfor christians, cuz thats what I know most about.
Q1: Where did god come from? Don't give me that "he's always existed" bullshit, cuz if he can just randomly exist, why can't we? Everything comes from something, nothing is just there out of nothing.
Q2: Why did he create us? was he bored? maybe had the feeling mothers feel when they know they want to have a child?
Q3: Why are some of you sooo damn prejudice against other religions? I thought you were supposed to be tolerant, and love everyone. Not be all "You're goin to hell cuz you believe wrong!!"
Q4: It seems like you scare people into beliveing. The threat of hell of the rapture seems to be how most convince others to believe. You make god seemcruel, unforgiving, and horrible sometimes.
Q5: If god really is there, he knows he created a rather intelligent race. He shouldn't really be upset for us questioning his exsitance.

Also, I heard that people go to hell fornot believing, even when they were just nvr informed. That is fucked up. Is that really true?? How could anyone believe that? Its not their fault they dont know and they shouldnt suffer an eternity for ignorance :wideeye:
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Re: Question on religion

Postby akasha » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:49 pm

I'm no religious fundie but I'll share this with you and I know many won't agree with me :lol:

Also, I heard that people go to hell fornot believing, even when they were just nvr informed. That is fucked up. Is that really true?? How could anyone believe that? Its not their fault they dont know and they shouldnt suffer an eternity for ignorance

Yeah that's what they say, but first as far as I know the word hell came from the word sheol and that word came from the word Gehenna which came from the word Hinnom,it's called valley of Hinnom it's a place in Israel.It's a place where those criminal's corpses were dumped, corpses were burned there day and night.

http://fromdamascustoemmaus.com/was-the ... -of-jesus/
http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellPhotos/

What I do believe is apocatastasis.Here http://orthodoxwiki.org/Apocatastasis It means restoration or return,that everyone will be saved and in the end even demons will go back again to that One source.'coz if God did created everything then he created those demons as well right?Lucifer which is always depicted as the evil one,the name means light bearer and he used to be an angel.
St. Gregory of Nyssa believed in it(apocatastasis)and also one of the early church father Origen too who also believes in pre-existence of soul.

Q3: Why are some of you sooo damn prejudice against other religions? I thought you were supposed to be tolerant, and love everyone. Not be all "You're goin to hell cuz you believe wrong!!"

I may not have an answer to this question but I obviously see people fighting coz of their religion coz sometimes some people think their belief is better and much true than the others coz of the scriptures they have(well that is just according to my observation to some people I've known),and this I'm gonna share.
I dunno if you've heard this but if this is actually true then things will be screwed big time.During the lost years of Jesus which was not written in the bible, his age of 12-29 years old,there were researches that he actually went to Tibet and India and was known as St.Issa.He studied Buddhism and Hinduism and became a teacher to people there.There's also a hand gesture that Jesus depicts in some portraits where his hands are held together in prayer position,it's called anjali mudra in hindu.It's a salutaion or greeting and in India it is often done with the hand gesture anjali mudra and they say namaste.

According to this he went to Tibet and India.
http://reluctant-messenger.com/issa.htm

try checkin these hand gestures
http://theyogaphile.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... agery.html


Q1: Where did god come from? Don't give me that "he's always existed" bullshit, cuz if he can just randomly exist, why can't we? Everything comes from something, nothing is just there out of nothing.

Had the same question too since I was young. :rasberry: But I think time and existence is very complex.I think time here on our earth plane is different from the astral plane.I think there's still a lot of questions that needs answers but sometimes the answers might come up as bizarre or weird for most of us.

Okay I'll try to elaborate some maybe later 'coz I need to take a rest.Happy New Year!! :)

Just my :2cents: :)
If one does not understand a person, one tends to regard him as a fool.
-Carl Jung


I'd rather have a mind opened by wonders than a mind closed by religion.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby VenusInChains » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:54 pm

ImaMonsta wrote:So for one, tell me about your religion. Any religion. Explain as much as you can, please.

ok basically I'm wicca. I don't follow any specific path, wicca is a pretty broad religion. It falls under paganism which includes hinduism. Wiccanism can range from athiesm to polythiesm. My beliefs are that there is a god and a goddess, they are one and the same. God having a masculine and a feminine side. I follow the cycles of the moon and I find it pretty interesting that the date of easter and the date of ramadan follow the lunar cycles.
There is only one rule that wiccan follow, an it harm none do what you will. Basically if it hurts noone, then its ok. This rule applies to casting spells, placing curses on others is harmful ( and I believe damning someone to hell for eternity is putting a curse on them) Being a malicious person by spreading lies and gossip is harmful. Exessive substance abuse is harmful to yourself. The rule applies to yourself aswell, not just others and it includes animals although there is debate among some wiccans about being vegitarian/vegan.


Q1: Where did god come from? Don't give me that "he's always existed" bullshit, cuz if he can just randomly exist, why can't we? Everything comes from something, nothing is just there out of nothing.
Q2: Why did he create us? was he bored? maybe had the feeling mothers feel when they know they want to have a child?

These are pretty good question, however I don't know the answer. I think I'm too small to understand what God really is and I just accept that there is someone above watching over us.

Q3: Why are some of you sooo damn prejudice against other religions? I thought you were supposed to be tolerant, and love everyone. Not be all "You're goin to hell cuz you believe wrong!!"

I find it isn't just christians that are prejudice, muslims can be like that aswell. I have a muslim friend, he has a very strong faith. He believes that if you aren't following a religion of the 3 books (Torah, Bible, Quran) you are damned to hell. Which I find a little contradictory because jews don't believe in hell. As for my personal beliefs, I don't believe in hell as an eternal firey tar pit. How can you experience physical pain in the afterlife if you have left your physical body? What my thoughts of hell are, are that we experience the pain we have inflicted on others during our time on earth and like our time on earth, it isn't for eternity.

Q4: It seems like you scare people into beliveing. The threat of hell of the rapture seems to be how most convince others to believe. You make god seemcruel, unforgiving, and horrible sometimes.

I am in agreeance with you on this, non christians are almost bullied into beliefs when you think about it. Convert or be damned for eternity? Whenever I watch that movie chronicals of riddick, idk why but the necromongers remind me of christians.
I don't believe god can be kind and loving but at the same time be cruel and unforgiving. I think god is unconditional with love.

Q5: If god really is there, he knows he created a rather intelligent race. He shouldn't really be upset for us questioning his exsitance.

I know you are asking these questions to christians. The vatican has recently accepted the possibility of existance other forms of intelligent life in the universe. And for the second part of your question, I know there is a passage in the bible that says it is perfectly acceptable to question things, but don't ask me to quote it, I know its its in the new testiment though.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby dr.rain » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:10 am

i know this is off topic and apologize but i just came here to say
VenusInChains

i like your name ! :lovestruck: ok have fun here :neer:

bye :excited: :ecstatic: :hugs: :)
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Re: Question on religion

Postby akasha » Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:20 pm

Gonna have to continue here coz it only allows 5 links per post..

Q4: It seems like you scare people into beliveing. The threat of hell of the rapture seems to be how most convince others to believe. You make god seemcruel, unforgiving, and horrible sometimes.

I even remember a classmate of mine who said I should join their religion so that I'll be saved. :lol: Just makes me think how can a loving God make his creation damn in the lake of fire for eternity 'coz that creation is a failure?If a creation has failed isn't that the creator's failure too?That 's why I don't believe in such thing as hell like that.


Q5: If god really is there, he knows he created a rather intelligent race. He shouldn't really be upset for us questioning his exsitance.

Who told you God gets upset?religious folks?
VenusInChains is right that the Vatican already said that there may be extra-terrestrials, if I'm not mistaken that was in 2008.Vatican even claims that the theory of evolution is compatible with Christianity see here
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... anity.html

try checkin this stuff..Book of Allan Kardec called The Spirit's Book, it has questions and answers about God and spirits and other stuffs..Though it may not answer all of your questions it's a nice material to read :)
http://www.spiritwritings.com/kardecspi ... 1.html#God

This is the table of contents of that link
http://www.spiritwritings.com/kardecspiritstoc.html

Just my :2cents: :)
If one does not understand a person, one tends to regard him as a fool.
-Carl Jung


I'd rather have a mind opened by wonders than a mind closed by religion.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:50 pm

VenusInChains wrote:
ImaMonsta wrote:So for one, tell me about your religion. Any religion. Explain as much as you can, please.
It falls under paganism which includes hinduism.

My apologies for interrupting, but Hinduism is not Paganism. There are many gods and goddess in Hinduism -- this is correct -- Yet it is also emphatized that there is only one 'Supreme Being', or 'Supreme God'. This 'Supreme God' predates all other gods and goddesses and is the one that create the universe, making them the many gods and goddesses no more than the Eastern version of Christian saints.

In Paganism, the forces of creation are either shared among a variety of gods, or in the case of a single creation deity, other gods/goddesses have the power to 'overthrow' this initial creator god/goddess. Take Gaia and the titans as example. The gods of Olympus, the sons and daughters of the titans, seal the titans away and take their throne as the governing force on the universe.

Furthermore Paganism requires a very important element to be considered such: pantheism (or worship or the elements/Earth/etc.). In Hinduism this is frowned upon, as it is considering worshipping the creation and not the creator.
"Spirituality" is a code word of sorts: "I have a confession to make — I believe in God! I'm so sorry!" - "Your 'science' cannot explain my transcendental experiences!" - "I'm a quack. Give me all your money."
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Re: Question on religion

Postby spirt123 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:08 am

the question of relgion if you think about it anit most realigions baiscly the same ? with only a alittle varition with people fighting wars over it .
funny how religion is supposed to bring peace bringing people together but it only causes fighting , death , misery
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Re: Question on religion

Postby VenusInChains » Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:19 pm

DRLHyper wrote:My apologies for interrupting, but Hinduism is not Paganism. There are many gods and goddess in Hinduism -- this is correct -- Yet it is also emphatized that there is only one 'Supreme Being', or 'Supreme God'. This 'Supreme God' predates all other gods and goddesses and is the one that create the universe, making them the many gods and goddesses no more than the Eastern version of Christian saints.

In Paganism, the forces of creation are either shared among a variety of gods, or in the case of a single creation deity, other gods/goddesses have the power to 'overthrow' this initial creator god/goddess. Take Gaia and the titans as example. The gods of Olympus, the sons and daughters of the titans, seal the titans away and take their throne as the governing force on the universe.

Furthermore Paganism requires a very important element to be considered such: pantheism (or worship or the elements/Earth/etc.). In Hinduism this is frowned upon, as it is considering worshipping the creation and not the creator.


ok I guess my bad, I've just been told its a pagan religion that's all
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Re: Question on religion

Postby MonSTAR » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:51 pm

ImaMonsta wrote:Ok..I've been trying to figure out what I believe, what makes sense to me, but everything either seems to have holes in it or I havn't read enuff on it to understand.
So for one, tell me about your religion. Any religion. Explain as much as you can, please.


Hello. I'm the other Monster. :) I haven't been on here in a long while...but I've been a member since '05.

So, I totally feel the same way you do. I took religious studies classes to gain more knowledge of religions of all kinds to find what fit for me. And like you, something about each just didn't sit well with me. Alas, I didn't find one.

Later I found that for myself, I had personal experiences to be monotheistic (belief in one higher power). I also interpreted 'religion' as a repetitive practice of some belief or ritual/activity. I had to think about what I did 'religiously', what I truly believed in and relied on for answers to my questions, solve behavioral and emotional issues and find somewhere I could feel a part of a group or community.

So this is gonna sound weird, but currently, I 'practice' Dreaming. I do it every night, I always seek to understand what I see, the Dream Dictionary is the text I read, I gather here, or on other dream sites with other Dreamers and call it my 'community.'

I see my beliefs as something different, separate. I believe in God, and most of what monotheistic religions claim, that there are Angels and demons and such. I don't see their practices as mine, and I do not put them down for their texts and practices.

So it's not all cut and dry here, I'm still fuzzy on the details when it comes to my beliefs, but my religion is pretty set.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:49 pm

VenusInChains wrote:ok I guess my bad, I've just been told its a pagan religion that's all

Honest mistake, no problem.
"Spirituality" is a code word of sorts: "I have a confession to make — I believe in God! I'm so sorry!" - "Your 'science' cannot explain my transcendental experiences!" - "I'm a quack. Give me all your money."
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Re: Question on religion

Postby SharA2 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:45 pm

On question five-- he knows he also created a flawed race, who will falter and cause wars and destruction, hurt each other, but that is our free will, same as to question his existence, nothing is ever perfect.
And I want to wake up with the rain
Falling on a tin roof
While I'm safe there in your arms
So all I ask is for you
To come away with me in the night
Come away with me
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Re: Question on religion

Postby ImaMonsta » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:08 pm

Everyone, thanks for letting me know about your religions and trying to answer my questions. I would try to respond to each of you individualy, but that would just take soooo long :yawn:
As for what you guys have been saying about Q5, i understand he knows that his creation is flawed, but then why does he punish the people who question him? I've heard so many people tell me that if I don't believe in god and i keep questioning his exsitence, then i'll burn in hell. If he understands, then he wouldn't mind, and wouldn't be punishing atheists and agnostics and all other kinds of religions that deny him. :?

Also, I tried studying wicca for awhile. It really interested me, but it just didn't feel as right as I had hoped it would. I think its a great religion overall, but again, i don't understand the god & goddess thing that much. If you could clarify that a bit, i would really appreciate it.
Could someone also explain atheistic wiccanism too?

There are soo many religions :shock: who came up with them anyway? Do people just pull these things out of thin air? :icecream:
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Re: Question on religion

Postby G.I.74 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:42 am

I'll try my best to help you understand the questionable.
Q1: Where did god come from? Don't give me that "he's always existed" bullshit, cuz if he can just randomly exist, why can't we? Everything comes from something, nothing is just there out of nothing.
Ans: He simply exists. God is the uncaused Being that caused everything else to come into existence. God is the uncreated Creator who created the universe and everything in it.

Q2: Why did he create us? was he bored? maybe had the feeling mothers feel when they know they want to have a child?
Ans: For His pleasure. Being created for God’s pleasure does not mean humanity was made to entertain God or provide Him with amusement. God is a creative Being, and it gives Him pleasure to create. God is a personal Being, and it gives Him pleasure to have other beings He can have a genuine relationship with.

Q3: Why are some of you sooo damn prejudice against other religions? I thought you were supposed to be tolerant, and love everyone. Not be all "You're goin to hell cuz you believe wrong!!"
Ans: Ephesians 4:15 refers to "speaking the truth in love." First Peter 3:15 instructs Christians to defend their faith, but to do so "with gentleness and respect." Colossians 4:6 proclaims, "let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt..." Sadly, some Christians fail to follow these biblical instructions. Some Christians (or at least people who claim to be Christians) speak the truth, but speak it in such a way that it is very hateful. My favorite misquote is "GOD hates fags" NOWHERE in the Bible states that. He dose not approve of that lifestyle either but He does not hate that person. There are 7 sins that God hates & homosexuality is not on that list. Its like a parent who has a child who may practice something that parent dosen't agree with and may anger that parent but that does not mean that mom/dad hates their own child.

Q4: It seems like you scare people into beliveing. The threat of hell of the rapture seems to be how most convince others to believe. You make god seemcruel, unforgiving, and horrible sometimes.
Ans: Its not about scaring people to believe its informing. If that "threat" is soo convincing why isn't there more people going to church & serving? Its our human nature to do as we please & not follow rules or instructions. Its like jumping off the highest building & not expect to get splattered on the ground because you expect God to stop you from falling. The law of gravity is something you can't overcome. Not saying God can't do that but everything has a place & purpose. If you were to visit a foreign country & may do something that might be against their laws so if I have knowlege of their laws , it would be my duty to inform you. It would be wrong of me to say nothing & say hey let them deal with it, its not my problem. Yes God is not cruel but He is just.

Q5: If god really is there, he knows he created a rather intelligent race. He shouldn't really be upset for us questioning his exsitance.
Ans: Its not whether we should question God, but in what manner and for what reason we question Him. To question God is not in itself wrong.
An honest question is not a sin, but a bitter, untrusting, or rebellious heart is. God is not intimidated by questions. God invites us to enjoy close fellowship with Him. When we “question God,” it should be from a humble spirit and open mind. We can question God, but we should not expect an answer unless we are genuinely interested in His answer. God knows our hearts, and knows whether we are genuinely seeking Him to enlighten us. Our heart attitude is what determines whether it is right or wrong to question God.
Hopefully I helped a little. I had to answer this because I'm soo tired of WRONG answers to the daily questions of who God really is. too many people are making God into a angry, racist, sexist, bloodthirsty being. NO those are characteristics of humankind. BUT we need to realise that God is not a toy, a force to be taken lightly, or a joke. He is loving but again HE is just.



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Re: Question on religion

Postby ImaMonsta » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:02 am

That "he simply exists" is what I wanted to avoid. If he can simpy exist, who's to say we don't just simply exist? If no one had to make him, then no one may have had to make us.

Okay so he made us sort of for the same reason an artist creates a painting or sculpture? Cool.

So those people who say he hates homosexuals are just assholes? Makes sense. Btw, this is off subject, but did you know they're supposedly trying to pass a law in TN that makesit okay to bully gays if our politically, religiously, or morally against it? How awful is that!

I don't really understand how he's just. He damns his own creation to hell for not being perfect or for not having a close relationship with him? And they say it's the devil's faut people are tempted and sin, but if god made everything, he made the devil..He pretty much created the chaos didn't he? And I know the devil was originally an angel, but once he turned evil, why didn't god just punish him by destroying him instead of sending him to hell where he can trick people into eternal damnation?

I'm not sure you understood what I meant when I said question him. I mean like he shouldn't care that some people question his existance to a point to where they don't really believe he's really there. But I've been told by many that he won't accept people who don't belive in him into his kingdom or something.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby G.I.74 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:49 pm

John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." Sorry for the "He simply exist" comment but thats for lack of better words. But thats simply how it is. There are things we wont fully understand or have a complete explination to some of our questions. Now if we "simply exist" Why do we even procreate or even have a reproductive system, if we can just pop outta nowhere? Thats why I can't accept the theory of evolution & other simular ideas, because if we did come from apes & fish, why isn't that happening in this day & age?

and yes those who "hate" homosexuals are umm yea that. They are kinda contradicting themselves by qouteing Bible verses where the Bible states hating anyone is a SIN. In God's eyes its considered equal to a physical murder.

God doesn't send anybody to hell, we send ourselves there. As fallen, sinful human beings, the nature of God is a difficult concept for us to grasp. We tend to see God as a kind, merciful Being whose love for us overrides and overshadows all His other attributes. Of course God is loving, kind, and merciful, but He is first and foremost a holy and righteous God. So holy is He that He cannot tolerate sin. Our sin is eternally before Him and must be eternally punished in order to satisfy His holy justice.
In order to do that, is when one accepts Christ as their personal savior. no special ceramony burning of candles nothing. Just a simple confession to God Himself & giving your life to Him. religion has nothing to do with any of that. Religion is flawed BIG TIME. Religion is man's way to reach God but building a relationship with God is when He reaches towards you. Hell is a just punishment for sin. No one understands this better than someone in hell. A perfect example is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Both died, and the rich man went to hell while Lazarus went to paradise (Luke 16). Of course, the rich man was aware that his sins were only committed during his lifetime. But, interestingly, he never says, “How did I end up here?” That question is never asked in hell. He does not say, “Did I really deserve this? Don't you think this is a little extreme? A little over the top?” He only asks that someone go to his brothers who are still alive and warn them against his fate.
But because God is also just and righteous, He cannot allow our sin to go unpunished. Someone has to pay for it. In His great mercy and love, God provided His own payment for our sin. He sent His Son Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins by dying on the cross for us. Jesus’ death was an infinite death because He is the infinite God/man, paying our infinite sin debt, so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). If we confess our sin and place our faith in Christ, asking for God’s forgiveness based on Christ’s sacrifice, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. God loved us so much that He provided the means for our salvation, but if we reject His gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision. Yes Satan is a created being. He is not that red guy with horns & a tail. Satan was one of the most attractive angels in heaven before his fall. Im not completely sure why God dosent destroy the devil now, but He reminds us, “‘For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,’ says the LORD. ‘For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts’” (Isaiah 55:8-9). We know that God will one day defeat Satan once and for all by throwing him into the Lake of Fire where he will be tortured day and night forever (Revelation 20:10)


Oh ok no I read your question wrong. Ok well God cannot be proved or disproved. The Bible says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists. Without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). Every culture throughout history has had some form of law. Everyone has a sense of right and wrong. Murder, lying, stealing, and immorality are almost universally rejected. Where did this sense of right and wrong come from if not from a holy God? There alot of things to point the existance of a designer GOD. One example that I can think of is, if the Earth were significantly closer or farther away from the sun, it would not be capable of supporting much of the life it currently does. If the elements in our atmosphere were even a few percentage points different, nearly every living thing on earth would die.

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Re: Question on religion

Postby ImaMonsta » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:12 am

Ok. Well while some of that made sense, most of it just kinda confused me. I really don't get how anything can just be. It doesn't make any sense, and thats probably the most confusing part of everything.

And to that last part..So, he does send people who don't fully believe in him to hell? (Ignore all of this if I've understood what you've said+what I've heard from others wrong) That's anotherthing I don't get. If he created us, he knows very well that he created a fllawed species. And if there is no proof of his existence provided for us, of course we're going to doubt his existence and explore other possible options for why and how we are. He should understand and expect us to question him. Shouldn't he?
And it is pretty awesome how so many unlikely things are they way they are. The placement of the Earth is just one of the many crazy amazing things that just is, even though it easily could not have been. I feel like what I just said made no sense.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby G.I.74 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:10 am

Yes God Yahwey does know our flaws. thats Why Jesus died for our sins, since we can't enter heaven without Him. God is about law & order. What if I murdered someone in your family or lets make it more simple. what if I broke into your house and just took everything? The judge says well you have no prior record & your pretty much an overall nice person who usually dosen't do things like this. I'm going to overlook this and not send you to prison/jail." Hits his gavel & says next case please. Theres no justice there is it? What if the things I stole from your house were given to the needy? Things that you worked hard for, would that still justify being ok to give your things to the salvation army? NO, because there are other ways to go about it. Also stealing, murder and other things can't be overlooked & pushed off with a slap on the wrist. Some Christians think if they don't smoke, drink, give to the poor , pray, go to church, this makes them good in God's eyes. Actions alone is not what God is looking for. If your heart still has hate, envy & you do things for people to pat you on the back & be called a "good person" or good Christian" then you are doing it for show & tell not truely from your heart and most def not being a representative of Christ. Jesus talked about people who would do this & basically frowned on that type of behavior. Now God dose'nt send people to hell if there is ignorance of His law. If some man or women in a far distant part of the world where they probably never heard of God Christ heven or hell, anyting, He will judge them according to the actions of their heart. Like I said before murder, theft, lieing so on & so forth are universally wrong, whether they heard about God or not. Now questioning God again depends on how you question His existance. Is it where you want to know if He really is there because you may feel some sort of emptiness? You being sincere in your heart to wanting to know His whole existance is one thing, then God will somehow (according to HIs will) will make his existance known. Now if someone is questioning His existance to prove a point of their unbelief in God is another issue with God. Now thats an issue God has a problem with. Questioning whether God exist depends on the postion you are taking on this subject. Is it a need for a void to be fulfilled or is it to humiliate & mock one's belief in a God of all creation ? Me as a artist can relate. If someone would ask, they wanted me to paint a waterfall in their basement & ask "acn you do it ?" I wouldn't be offended becasue that question is asking me do I feel I can perform this job or not. Now If someone was to say. "yea that waterfall looks kinda complicated, I wonder if he's even artistic enough to actually do it ?" then that statement would anger me. Again its all in our attitude & heart in which God judges us
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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:42 am

ImaMonsta wrote:Ok..I've been trying to figure out what I believe, what makes sense to me, but everything either seems to have holes in it or I havn't read enuff on it to understand.
So for one, tell me about your religion. Any religion. Explain as much as you can, please.

I am not a religious person, nor do I adhere to any belief/religion. I do, however, have knowledge of many religions. I will do my best to provide insight.
ImaMonsta wrote:Q1: Where did god come from? Don't give me that "he's always existed" bullshit, cuz if he can just randomly exist, why can't we? Everything comes from something, nothing is just there out of nothing.

Hindus will disagree because Supreme Being exists before anything, and after anything. A kind of similar train of though would do for some Christians.

The reason I think it is flawed is because both groups still punish the individual, but not the creator for creating a flawed creation.
Q2: Why did he create us? was he bored? maybe had the feeling mothers feel when they know they want to have a child?
A mistery. The only who knows what lies in the artist's mind, is the artist himself.
Q3: Why are some of you sooo damn prejudice against other religions? I thought you were supposed to be tolerant, and love everyone. Not be all "You're goin to hell cuz you believe wrong!!"

There are fundamentalists in every culture and religion, this not only pertains to Christians, Muslims, or Hindus. There are even pagan fundamentalists... My suggestion is to ignore them and read the religious texts yourself.
Q4: It seems like you scare people into beliveing. The threat of hell of the rapture seems to be how most convince others to believe. You make god seemcruel, unforgiving, and horrible sometimes.

Please see the above. Althrough, this element exists since ancient times to ensure that the masses adhered to a basic morality code.
Q5: If god really is there, he knows he created a rather intelligent race. He shouldn't really be upset for us questioning his exsitance.

No, unless he was the Old Testament God.
Also, I heard that people go to hell fornot believing, even when they were just nvr informed. That is fucked up. Is that really true?? How could anyone believe that? Its not their fault they dont know and they shouldnt suffer an eternity for ignorance :wideeye:

That is what caused the breakup between the Jesuites and the Pope. The Jesuites would not give up Native Americans as slaves, but the Catholic Chruch had an undefined stance on the issue (which was essentially limited to baptizing indigenous people that were kept as slaves).
"Spirituality" is a code word of sorts: "I have a confession to make — I believe in God! I'm so sorry!" - "Your 'science' cannot explain my transcendental experiences!" - "I'm a quack. Give me all your money."
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Re: Question on religion

Postby Nostalgic » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:56 am

I'm a non beleiver, here's my thoughts .....
Q1: Where did god come from? Don't give me that "he's always existed" bullshit, cuz if he can just randomly exist, why can't we? Everything comes from something, nothing is just there out of nothing.

I think people invented god or higher powers when they started asking themselves where we came from and had no other logical explanation.

Q2: Why did he create us? was he bored? maybe had the feeling mothers feel when they know they want to have a child?

If I were to beleive in god I would assume he created us just because he could.

Q3: Why are some of you sooo damn prejudice against other religions? I thought you were supposed to be tolerant, and love everyone. Not be all "You're goin to hell cuz you believe wrong!!"

Not all religious people are extreme and so closed minded.

Q4: It seems like you scare people into beliveing. The threat of hell of the rapture seems to be how most convince others to believe. You make god seemcruel, unforgiving, and horrible sometimes.

Some people are just weird but not all religious people are like that.

Q5: If god really is there, he knows he created a rather intelligent race. He shouldn't really be upset for us questioning his exsitance.

They say it's a test but who knows.

Also, I heard that people go to hell fornot believing, even when they were just nvr informed. That is fucked up. Is that really true?? How could anyone believe that? Its not their fault they dont know and they shouldnt suffer an eternity for ignorance :wideeye:

That's just the weird people trying to convert you.
None of my religious friends have ever said I would go to hell for not beleiving.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby SamZee » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:06 pm

ImaMonsta wrote:tell me about your religion. Any religion. Explain as much as you can, please.

I don't particularly like using the word, "religion" to refer to my system of beliefs. Besides, there isn't really a name for it. There is however a word which refers to the paramount principle I hold, and that is Oneism. Above all else I believe in The Law Of One, which is the principle that all is one. All derives from the same source and that source is what's truly real. Everything else is a "distortion" of the oneness, or of what's called "intelligent infinity." In this philosophy, everything is the creator -- everything. Everything is a form of the creator expressing itself. There exists 8 densities of existence. Intelligent infinity becomes intelligent energy and forms the elements in density one, those forms of life evolve into plants and animals in 2nd density, those entities evolve into self-conscious beings who seek to know the fragmented Self in our 3rd density, we then evolve into homo luminous for 4th density in which we seek to know love and compassion, then continue in 5th to seek wisdom or light, then in 6th which is the combining of love and light, then in 7th where your consciousness merges with all there is in the universe, then in 8th in which the creation becomes completely unified again. The Law Of One has a profound effect on he who holds awareness of it. You begin to see yourself in everything and everyone, and you understand that others are really other selves. Suddenly the universal laws make sense. The law of karma for example. Why does what goes around come around? Because you're not just doing something to someone else, you're also doing it to yourself because they are you.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:35 am

With all due respect SamZee, the law of Karma does not makes sense.
"Spirituality" is a code word of sorts: "I have a confession to make — I believe in God! I'm so sorry!" - "Your 'science' cannot explain my transcendental experiences!" - "I'm a quack. Give me all your money."
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Re: Question on religion

Postby St. Dymphna » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:23 am

DRLHyper wrote:With all due respect SamZee, the law of Karma does not makes sense.

You don't understand the law of karma, then. You get what you put in makes perfect sense.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:48 am

St. Dymphna wrote:
DRLHyper wrote:With all due respect SamZee, the law of Karma does not makes sense.

You don't understand the law of karma, then. You get what you put in makes perfect sense.

I do understand the law of Karma.

The law of Karma is incompatbile with a moral code, however, since it in itself creates an everlasting loop.
"Spirituality" is a code word of sorts: "I have a confession to make — I believe in God! I'm so sorry!" - "Your 'science' cannot explain my transcendental experiences!" - "I'm a quack. Give me all your money."
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Re: Question on religion

Postby Nostalgic » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:35 am

So your saying it doesn't work because it's I loop? But we break the loop regulary no?

I'm lost :shock:
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Re: Question on religion

Postby St. Dymphna » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:28 am

DRLHyper wrote:The law of Karma is incompatbile with a moral code, however, since it in itself creates an everlasting loop.

That doesn't make sense, our moral code has nothing to do with causality. What do you think you get what you put in means?
DRLHyper wrote:since it in itself creates an everlasting loop.

What does that even mean?
DRLHyper wrote:I do understand the law of Karma.

Clearly you don't.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:10 pm

Nostalgic wrote:So your saying it doesn't work because it's I loop? But we break the loop regulary no?

I'm lost :shock:

St. Dymphna wrote:Clearly you don't.

The infinity loop happens because, according to Karma, 'everything that goes, comes back', correct?

Okay, let us say I kill a man. Now, in our next lives, he proceeds to kill me. But, you must notice this. To enact the 'punishment', he must commit the same crime. Hence, in my next live I will kill him again. And then he will kill me. And so forth for eternity.
St. Dymphna wrote:That doesn't make sense, our moral code has nothing to do with causality. What do you think you get what you put in means?

Please above.

Furthermore, in a reality with Karma, there are no innocents.
St. Dymphna wrote:What does that even mean?

Please above.
"Spirituality" is a code word of sorts: "I have a confession to make — I believe in God! I'm so sorry!" - "Your 'science' cannot explain my transcendental experiences!" - "I'm a quack. Give me all your money."
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Re: Question on religion

Postby St. Dymphna » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:43 pm

Okay, let us say I kill a man. Now, in our next lives, he proceeds to kill me. But, you must notice this. To enact the 'punishment', he must commit the same crime. Hence, in my next live I will kill him again. And then he will kill me. And so forth for eternity.

You have no idea what Karma is or how it even works.
please above

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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:26 pm

St. Dymphna wrote:
Okay, let us say I kill a man. Now, in our next lives, he proceeds to kill me. But, you must notice this. To enact the 'punishment', he must commit the same crime. Hence, in my next live I will kill him again. And then he will kill me. And so forth for eternity.

You have no idea what Karma is or how it even works.

Can not you read English? I just explained what Karma was, and it's fatal flaws.

I will summarize: In Karma, there are no innocents, and every time an action is committed an infinity loop is created.
St. Dymphna wrote:Mind=blown

If you are unable to understand my explanations, there are many books and literature (both of supporters and detractors) on Karma, or information readable online for those who preffer such method. It is not hard to understand the flaws of the concept.
"Spirituality" is a code word of sorts: "I have a confession to make — I believe in God! I'm so sorry!" - "Your 'science' cannot explain my transcendental experiences!" - "I'm a quack. Give me all your money."
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Re: Question on religion

Postby SamZee » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:55 pm

DRLHyper wrote:Okay, let us say I kill a man. Now, in our next lives, he proceeds to kill me. But, you must notice this. To enact the 'punishment', he must commit the same crime. Hence, in my next live I will kill him again. And then he will kill me. And so forth for eternity.

Karma is about balance. When an action is taken which creates imbalance, a resulting action occurs to correct it. Balance is then restored. The only eradicator of karma is forgiveness. True forgiveness, that is -- something few are capable of. It's complete understanding and forgiveness of Self and other self. Even if something bad happens to you, you have to forgive yourself for it. It's not easy to understand, but that's the thing about the universal laws -- they operate on all levels of existence. Many of which are far beyond the human intellect.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:22 pm

SamZee wrote:Karma is about balance. When an action is taken which creates imbalance, a resulting action occurs to correct it. Balance is then restored.

Which is what I call the 'infinity loop'.
SamZee wrote:The only eradicator of karma is forgiveness. True forgiveness, that is -- something few are capable of. It's complete understanding and forgiveness of Self and other self.

That is an interesting perspective, but seems suspiciously apologetic.
SamZee wrote:Even if something bad happens to you, you have to forgive yourself for it. It's not easy to understand, but that's the thing about the universal laws -- they operate on all levels of existence. Many of which are far beyond the human intellect.

If they can not be understood and interpreted, then might as well be abstractions.

The issue I have with Karma is, as I said, that there are no innocents. If something bad happens to you, you deserve it -- and likewise when you do something bad to others. As I stated before, the concept of forgiveness is an interesting one -- but it does not removes the needed conditions for Karma to work.
"Spirituality" is a code word of sorts: "I have a confession to make — I believe in God! I'm so sorry!" - "Your 'science' cannot explain my transcendental experiences!" - "I'm a quack. Give me all your money."
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Re: Question on religion

Postby SamZee » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:24 pm

DRLHyper wrote:If they can not be understood and interpreted, then might as well be abstractions.

To me, that's just too narrow a perspective to correctly draw such a conclusion. The universal laws, even at our level, cannot be understood by that type of linear thinking. What I'm talking about is multidimensional inherence. It's where the same thing occurs within different levels of whatever it is you're talking about. Take sacred geometry for example. You find the same geometry from the smallest of microscopic to the largest of macroscopic structures. That's the concept of what I'm talking about. That particular sentence of yours embodied quite an "all-or-nothing attitude," which never has been, and never will be the type of thinking that allows itself to discover or understand anything new. I'm not implying that of you, I'm talking about science in general. For what would we know if we gave up on everything that didn't sit well with us immediately or make perfect sense so readily? It is wise to acknowledge that no matter what we understand, there exist levels of it that we're not yet prepared to. This is the only way we'll ever continue to discover/learn anything.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby SamZee » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:42 pm

DRLHyper wrote:If something bad happens to you, you deserve it -- and likewise when you do something bad to others.
But you see, it's not about deserving, it's about requiring. This particular notion and the concept of the Law Of Attraction is very difficult for most people to understand/accept. Truth is, most people cling to the victim consciousness. They can go all their lives believing that there's no purpose for the negativity in their lives. But once the individual understands and accepts the idea of causality, once that person realizes that their life is the masterpiece of their own consciousness, that person will go from being the victim of their life to the master of it. Why not try to learn from everything? Why not view literally all negativity as an opportunity for learning? As a chance to understand how it came to be and how you brought it about? Why not take advantage of such things? Wise man once said, "Life is like photography. We develop from the negatives."
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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:30 am

SamZee wrote:To me, that's just too narrow a perspective to correctly draw such a conclusion. The universal laws, even at our level, cannot be understood by that type of linear thinking. What I'm talking about is multidimensional inherence. It's where the same thing occurs within different levels of whatever it is you're talking about. Take sacred geometry for example. You find the same geometry from the smallest of microscopic to the largest of macroscopic structures. That's the concept of what I'm talking about. That particular sentence of yours embodied quite an "all-or-nothing attitude," which never has been, and never will be the type of thinking that allows itself to discover or understand anything new. I'm not implying that of you, I'm talking about science in general. For what would we know if we gave up on everything that didn't sit well with us immediately or make perfect sense so readily? It is wise to acknowledge that no matter what we understand, there exist levels of it that we're not yet prepared to. This is the only way we'll ever continue to discover/learn anything.

Let me rephrase it another way...

It is a proven fact that there are animals who can see more color pigments than us -- One animal has even the ability to perceive six color pigments, whereas we only perceive three. We can say that more color pigments exist... But is it reason to say that they govern us? After all, we can not perceive them. We can not either imagine them because we can only imagine that which is between our three pigments. That does not means we should not accept the idea that there is more than we can see -- if that mere animal can do it, it means there is that and much more things we can not -- but until we can properly identify them, then we are dependant on belief and subjective ideas.
SamZee wrote:But you see, it's not about deserving, it's about requiring. This particular notion and the concept of the Law Of Attraction is very difficult for most people to understand/accept. Truth is, most people cling to the victim consciousness. They can go all their lives believing that there's no purpose for the negativity in their lives. But once the individual understands and accepts the idea of causality, once that person realizes that their life is the masterpiece of their own consciousness, that person will go from being the victim of their life to the master of it.

The Law of Attraction is a belief, for example. If you look closely there is no way to legitimize it in a 'good' way... Do you honestly believe that the people in Africa have hunger because they just think about being hungry? Maybe they never wanted to have a house, decent food, or any other form of better material/mental situation?

You also have not resolved the most critical problem -- the lack of innocence. If I now went on a rampage, there is simply no way at all to prove if that was or was not a karmic retribution for the people I killed. You can not prove whatever they where innocent or not... Did they really deserve to die? I think that no, no one deserves to die. But under karma, there is always the 'maybe'. Same for rape, corruption, etc... I am repeating myself but, it is not about a victim consciousness -- but about the complete lack of innocents at all.

"Why not try to learn from everything? Why not view literally all negativity as an opportunity for learning? As a chance to understand how it came to be and how you brought it about? Why not take advantage of such things? Wise man once said, "Life is like photography. We develop from the negatives.""

I do not think people in Africa are learning anything in their hunger, sans that they do not have enought food to live adequately. Rape victims and the families of people murdered are not learning anything, sans suffering from the actions of others.
"Spirituality" is a code word of sorts: "I have a confession to make — I believe in God! I'm so sorry!" - "Your 'science' cannot explain my transcendental experiences!" - "I'm a quack. Give me all your money."
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Re: Question on religion

Postby NancyxBoy » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:59 am

ImaMonsta wrote:Ok..I've been trying to figure out what I believe, what makes sense to me, but everything either seems to have holes in it or I havn't read enuff on it to understand.


This is totally normal. Especially if you're sixteen-ish. I'm twenty-two, and I'm still not sure what I believe in. Some people never figure it out.

ImaMonsta wrote:So for one, tell me about your religion. Any religion. Explain as much as you can, please.


I am not religious, persay. I think that there is good, and there is bad, but that there is no direct, straight line to define the two, or to divide it all up into two, neat little packages. Everyone wants to say that the world is black, and white, but it is very much shades of grey. Even little things like homophobia set me off of organised religion. I don't wanna be part of that, because I don't believe that homosexuality is wrong, nor do I think I'm (or anyone) is going to hell for having sex with another girl (or guy, depending on your gender, and preference).
I do believe there is a "god," but I don't necessarily think it's some big, powerful, physical being that sits up in the clouds like Zeus and judges us because we steal a candy bar, or swear, or listen to Marilyn Manson, or read horror novels, or watch a documentary on John Wayne Gacy.
What I do think, is that when time first began, and things were coming out of the primordial ooze, and things started to happen, and people started to evolve from whatever we evolved from, things happened that couldn't be explained, so they gave it a name. I don't know what that name was, but I garauntee it wasn't god. But over time, that's become what we call this thing. Do I think it has power? Absolutely. Do I believe that Jesus Christ was a real person, and that some of the things they preach about in church actually happened? Sure. But do I think that Big Brother is watching me do everything, and making sure I don't fuck up, because all I have to do is pray, and everything will be okay? No.
No one is that bored.

Christianity, to me, always seemed like a cop-out. People who believe in god think that when their problems get too complicated, or too stressful to handle, all they have to do is give it to god, and everything will be okay. Everything won't be okay.
The picture of the Last Supper is one of the most famous paintings in the world. But Jesus is upset, and the Apostles look depressed. I don't wanna go to their party. I'd rather hang out with the dogs playing poker. They're having fun.

I was raised in a religious household, and I could sit, and talk about this all day long, but I have somewhere to be, and I'm sort of pressed for time, so I will say this: What you're feeling is totally normal. It is in our nature to question everything, even the existance of god. My mother, and I butt heads on this a lot, and I still can't get her to understand that, while I do believe that Christ was a real person, I'm still a little skeptical as to how anyone could walk on water, or come back from the dead.

She says it's faith, but I think she's following something blindly, and it's something she doesn't understand. The bible was written for a society that is now defunct, and should be taken with a grain of salt, not as fact, but most people take it as fact, and they'll realise one day that it's probably the most stupid thing they could ever do.


By the way, I mean no offence to anyone. This is just my opinion.



I can't really answer your questions, because they're still answers I'm looking for myself. But I wish you luck in your search, and if you ever wanna just talk, my inbox is always open. :)
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Re: Question on religion

Postby SamZee » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:42 pm

DRLHyper wrote:It is a proven fact that there are animals who can see more color pigments than us -- One animal has even the ability to perceive six color pigments, whereas we only perceive three. We can say that more color pigments exist... But is it reason to say that they govern us?

I very much like this analogy. Say that these extra colors do exist. (and I bet they do) The thing that separates us from this animal is our ability to perceive them. What if the animal's ability to perceive these colors is like one's ability to see/understand something that isn't so empirically understood? Figuratively speaking, what if the animal gained the ability because its mind enabled it to do so? You might call that delusion. I would call it perception, for the mind is like a parachute -- only works when it's open. Point I'm making is, that we come to a point in conversation where we inevitably part ways. Just as someone who sees more colors could never describe them, I could never communicate the sorts of things I understand. It either resonates with someone to some degree, or it doesn't. No amount of explanation could make up for it.

To get back to your question. Is it reason to say that that which we cannot perceive governs us? No. While a Christian might believe that their God governs everything, I do not. "As above, so below." It's not about perceiving some isolated higher power which controls everything, it's about understanding that higher power in yourself and in all things. For me it's about identity, and that's where the Law Of One comes in.

DRLHyper wrote:but until we can properly identify them, then we are dependant on belief and subjective ideas.
It's really not that black and white -- no pun intended. You've made your ways of thinking quite clear. Either something is scientifically understood or it's sustained by belief. No? And until that belief is supported by a scientifically empirical means, it remains just that -- belief. That's the difference between you and I. I don't depend on mainstream science to tell me what's real and what's not. So far, you've led me to believe that you do, so correct me if that's not the case. The truth is, I cannot exist inside the same box of thinking that so many people do. My mind wouldn't be half of what it is now if I never broke from it.

DRLHyper wrote:The Law of Attraction is a belief, for example. If you look closely there is no way to legitimize it in a 'good' way... Do you honestly believe that the people in Africa have hunger because they just think about being hungry?
No. Again, here is where we part ways because I believe in reincarnation, and the concept that we choose to experience many extremes of the human condition in order to spiritually evolve. "Good" and "bad" as we term those polarities, do not have any meaning to the universe. Polarity is a distortion of the Law Of One. We experience polarity at this time, at this level, but at the highest level (which is complete unity) there is none. The universe does not discriminate, it only mirrors our consciousness.

DRLHyper wrote:You also have not resolved the most critical problem -- the lack of innocence. If I now went on a rampage, there is simply no way at all to prove if that was or was not a karmic retribution for the people I killed.
Here we get back to the subjectivity of "proof." I can tell you that it is possible to hypnotize people into the superconscious state in order to get this answer. You could even watch someone in past/between-life hypnosis but you still wouldn't believe it. Even if I tell you that someone can give the names of people they knew in a past life, living in the exact time frame given, in the exact location given, you probably still wouldn't believe it. There are studies pertaining to this. There are studies not involving hypnosis as well, where people have conscious recall, and discover that their information is completely accurate. But that wouldn't change your thinking either, so how could I? ;)

From your vantage point, no matter what I say, you'll always poke holes. I'll patch them up, only introducing more material to be poked at. It's a never-ending cycle.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:55 pm

SamZee wrote:
DRLHyper wrote:It is a proven fact that there are animals who can see more color pigments than us -- One animal has even the ability to perceive six color pigments, whereas we only perceive three. We can say that more color pigments exist... But is it reason to say that they govern us?

I very much like this analogy. Say that these extra colors do exist. (and I bet they do) The thing that separates us from this animal is our ability to perceive them. What if the animal's ability to perceive these colors is like one's ability to see/understand something that isn't so empirically understood? Figuratively speaking, what if the animal gained the ability because its mind enabled it to do so? You might call that delusion. I would call it perception, for the mind is like a parachute -- only works when it's open. Point I'm making is, that we come to a point in conversation where we inevitably part ways. Just as someone who sees more colors could never describe them, I could never communicate the sorts of things I understand. It either resonates with someone to some degree, or it doesn't. No amount of explanation could make up for it.

And I agree -- and open mind is a good thing. I for one am very open towards scientific progress that other people would never consider. I am all for transhumanism -- genetics, cybenetic, biotechnology, Artificial Intelligence, and much more.

However, one has also to be cautious. To be concise: How do you know that you are not being deceived by yourself?
SamZee wrote:To get back to your question. Is it reason to say that that which we cannot perceive governs us? No. While a Christian might believe that their God governs everything, I do not. "As above, so below." It's not about perceiving some isolated higher power which controls everything, it's about understanding that higher power in yourself and in all things. For me it's about identity, and that's where the Law Of One comes in.

Our differences are due to different philosophies. I believe that it is wrong to say 'All is One'. It would be more appropiate to say that 'All is is One' [the universe] but to say that 'All is One' implies by default a complete unity, which, sincerely speaking, I do not perceive. The mere fact we disagree on this point is proof of it... Do not you think?

I am more inclined to think that there is more truth to the Hindu/Sikh perspective. Put simply, every 'soul' is a 'spark from Supreme Being' (God/Creator/Universe Maker/etc.). If I were to believe this perspective, I would find that the difference to your own philosophy is that, while each soul can ascend to the same -- for lack of a better word -- 'plane of existence' as the Supreme Being is, then it would depend on [i]individual
efforts to do it. It may be capable of receiving spiritual teachings and help, but only it alone can do the journey. And when it reaches the Supreme Being, it helps it, becoming a 'co-worker', but not directly merging with it.
SamZee wrote:It's really not that black and white -- no pun intended. You've made your ways of thinking quite clear. Either something is scientifically understood or it's sustained by belief. No? And until that belief is supported by a scientifically empirical means, it remains just that -- belief. That's the difference between you and I. I don't depend on mainstream science to tell me what's real and what's not. So far, you've led me to believe that you do, so correct me if that's not the case. The truth is, I cannot exist inside the same box of thinking that so many people do. My mind wouldn't be half of what it is now if I never broke from it.

I am, honestly speaking, far from the mainstream beliefs. I may support 'empirical evidence'... Yet I am no Atheist (I am Agnostic). I also recognize that religious texts contain much wisdom. One simply has to interpret them correctly, even if one takes into account their flaws.

What I disagree are the Pagan/Neopagan ideas. Our philosophies differ because the 'Law of Attraction' -- for example -- is a pagan idea. The problem with all pagan ideas is that ultimately creation is worshipped or elevated in some what whereas religions of old warned against this. In particular, I find that, even if you remove the creator (let us suppose the Atheists are correct for a moment), then there is no reason to believe that. If, on the other hand, there is a creator, there is still no reason to worship the things created. Believing that one is a god, is indirect worship. Kind of what the Dalai Lama does.
SamZee wrote:No. Again, here is where we part ways because I believe in reincarnation, and the concept that we choose to experience many extremes of the human condition in order to spiritually evolve. "Good" and "bad" as we term those polarities, do not have any meaning to the universe. Polarity is a distortion of the Law Of One. We experience polarity at this time, at this level, but at the highest level (which is complete unity) there is none. The universe does not discriminate, it only mirrors our consciousness.

So people choose to experience brutal/vicious/deranged situations in order to spiritually evolve? Is not the purpose of 'spirtually evolving' to become 'better' somehow? If so, how experience brutality makes one better in any way?

It is a proven fact that violence creates more violence. Like I told you before -- the infinity loop.
SamZee wrote:Here we get back to the subjectivity of "proof." I can tell you that it is possible to hypnotize people into the superconscious state in order to get this answer. You could even watch someone in past/between-life hypnosis but you still wouldn't believe it. Even if I tell you that someone can give the names of people they knew in a past life, living in the exact time frame given, in the exact location given, you probably still wouldn't believe it. There are studies pertaining to this. There are studies not involving hypnosis as well, where people have conscious recall, and discover that their information is completely accurate. But that wouldn't change your thinking either, so how could I? ;)

There are also studies that prove the contrary situation -- but let us not go there.

Perhaps you are misinterpreting what I am doing. I am not trying to attack your beliefs; I am trying to understand them. However, in that process, I dissasemble, examine, and analyze each element much as I would with anything else. Belief is not something tangible, yet when you explain it, it is made of words. Those words form sentences which have meaning which can be broken down by the process I previously described.

You may be correct in that it is not something that 'can not be explained'. However, it is precisely due to this that I am wary of it. As I have stated before -- what makes, to you, the difference between what is real and what is not? And I am taking figureatively (you can replace my words with 'what is true and what is not', if you wish).
SamZee wrote:From your vantage point, no matter what I say, you'll always poke holes. I'll patch them up, only introducing more material to be poked at. It's a never-ending cycle.

Or an infinity-loop? Maybe your belief in karma, which leads to self-repeating cycles, has led you to this situation again and again and again...

...Or maybe I am just kidding on this last point. ;)
"Spirituality" is a code word of sorts: "I have a confession to make — I believe in God! I'm so sorry!" - "Your 'science' cannot explain my transcendental experiences!" - "I'm a quack. Give me all your money."
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Re: Question on religion

Postby 7Believer » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:32 pm

Hello. I'm a Christian. However, I believe that the Church makes mistakes, and one shouldn't follow them zealously. Determining what you should believe in requires unbiased comparison of the pros and cons, while considering both the long term and short term consequences.

A1: If you believe that everything comes from something, then consider the possibility that this requires something to have always existed. If something could have always existed, why couldn't God?

A2: I believe we were created by and from God as His equals (in potential) to eventually grow and become like Him ourselves, ultimately for entertainment.

A3: This question depends on your definition of tolerance. If two different choices are not equally beneficial, than they shouldn't be considered as such. However, we should never treat each other with disdain for any reason, no matter our differences. The reason why it happens is because evil corrupts.

A4: Scaring anybody is an act of cruelty, and I don't believe our loving Lord desires that, nor any of us, if we weren't heavily corrupted into doing so. This question doesn't seem to be a real question, but more of a statement. If you are wondering why it happens, my answer is the same as question 4's.

A5: Once again this appears to be more of a statement than a question. I agree with you, and I don't think He is upset that we question His existence. In fact, I think He allowed it to happen for a reason.

A6: Are you familiar with the symbolical reference to Lord Jesus as the Lamb of God? I believe that the lake of fire is also a symbolical reference, and likewise with Satan's supposed eternal torture. I don't think that anybody is going to suffer for eternity, but instead that everybody will eventually be rescued. Consider the possibility that Hell isn't a place where people are literally tortured, but a place where being there can seem torturous. I still believe that it exists as seperate area, just like Heaven, and that it isn't just a metaphor for a corrupted earth.

Specifically referring to non-believers, I think the virtuous among them are sent to paradise (which is a different place entirely than purgatory), which can be thought of like the spirit world that is amongst us but kept hidden. While there, I think they can still learn from events that happen on earth, and that may develop a faith in God for them, thus granting them their entry into Heaven.

I want to apologize to many people on this site for my past behaviour. My actions and comments may have contributed to unnecessary hostility, among other things. I disagree with some of my previous beliefs and statements, having learned more than I knew before. Despite our circumstantial differences, I believe that we are all naturally positive, and that we only sin because we are pressured into doing so (mentally, physically, socially, etc.) by a hidden evil, which limits are options to negative choices sometimes. Considering this belief, loving you all unconditionally is easy, and truly rewarding, for each person loved is like an ever flowing fountain of joy. Peace be with you. :)
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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:02 pm

Welcome back, Mr. 7Believer.
"Spirituality" is a code word of sorts: "I have a confession to make — I believe in God! I'm so sorry!" - "Your 'science' cannot explain my transcendental experiences!" - "I'm a quack. Give me all your money."
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Re: Question on religion

Postby SamZee » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:23 pm

I apologize for taking so long to respond, but here we go.

DRLHyper wrote:However, one has also to be cautious. To be concise: How do you know that you are not being deceived by yourself?
Definitely. One should be cautious. Honestly, I could write forever about this but I don't feel that would be very helpful. I'll just say this now, and that is that you learn to trust yourself. You develop a compass when stepping into what's otherwise "unknown." That compass doesn't always point to the same things as it may for others, but when it's working correctly, it always leads you down your path. Your inner voice guides you. The bountiful synchronicity guides you. You develop a sense for it.

DRLHyper wrote:but to say that 'All is One' implies by default a complete unity, which, sincerely speaking, I do not perceive. The mere fact we disagree on this point is proof of it... Do not you think?
I certainly wouldn't call it "proof" of that. Maybe you would, but to me it just shows that we're different fragments of the Creator who are experiencing ourselves differently at this time. Forget not that when I express the Law Of One by saying that all is one, it's from a universal perspective. The true oneness exists at the level of complete unity, but it's also the source of all things. So in a way that may be difficult for some to understand, that makes everything, even at this level, a perfect part of a perfect whole. The densities are "distortions" of the oneness or "intelligent infinity." They're like the colored light that comes from a prism when the white light (source) shines through it. So you may not perceive it, but that's because your consciousness is energy at a certain level of distortion which exists at this time to know itself as a separate individual. Your free will as an individual entity must be preserved so that you may know yourself by yourself. So that you may experience things as you do by your own nature. Please forgive me for infringing upon that if I have done so. (I'll get back to that later.) So in other words, what I mean at this level is that all is united in that it is all derives from the same thing. If you want to look at it physically, then the very energy which vibrates to form the photon (or quantum) is the energy of the source.

DRLHyper wrote:I am more inclined to think that there is more truth to the Hindu/Sikh perspective. Put simply, every 'soul' is a 'spark from Supreme Being' (God/Creator/Universe Maker/etc.). If I were to believe this perspective, I would find that the difference to your own philosophy is that, while each soul can ascend to the same -- for lack of a better word -- 'plane of existence' as the Supreme Being is, then it would depend on individual efforts to do it. It may be capable of receiving spiritual teachings and help, but only it alone can do the journey.
This describes almost exactly the same concepts I'm talking about. (Minus the very last part which I didn't include.) The idea that the soul is a spark of divinity is exactly what I'm talking about. It's evolved energy -- conscious energy. In some way, I believe that all religions offer some truth. I just find some of them are more or less distorted than others.

DRLHyper wrote:I may support 'empirical evidence'... Yet I am no Atheist (I am Agnostic). I also recognize that religious texts contain much wisdom. One simply has to interpret them correctly, even if one takes into account their flaws.
I'm glad you said this.

DRLHyper wrote:The problem with all pagan ideas is that ultimately creation is worshipped or elevated in some what whereas religions of old warned against this.
Honestly I haven't really looked into the Pagan tradition, but what I do know is that many "religions of old" serve to suppress good knowledge. The Catholic church for example, when they sentenced Galileo to house arrest for the rest of his life for believing that the Earth is not the center of the universe. I know you're familiar with that one. To me it's because they don't want people realizing their true identity, and their true power which they want all for themselves. But we won't go there.

DRLHyper wrote:Believing that one is a god, is indirect worship. Kind of what the Dalai Lama does.
Believing one is a god is, as I'm sure you know, completely different than believing that all is divine including yourself.

DRLHyper wrote:So people choose to experience brutal/vicious/deranged situations in order to spiritually evolve? Is not the purpose of 'spirtually evolving' to become 'better' somehow? If so, how experience brutality makes one better in any way?
The purpose of spiritual evolution as I understand it, is to become "more." Think of your life and all the hardship you've faced. Wouldn't you say you've grown in very profound ways because of it? Wouldn't you say that you've learned a lot from it, and because of that you've become more in mind? When I say "learn from it," I don't just mean like touching a hot stove. I mean you learn about [i]yourself, and in doing so, you realize more fully your own nature and being. As a soul, you become immensely strengthened when you experience these extreme forms of catalyst.

DRLHyper wrote:It is a proven fact that violence creates more violence.
It certainly does, and by the same token, love and harmony radiates itself as well. These opposing forces do so to further polarize themselves or to coalesce with more energy of their own polarities.

DRLHyper wrote:Perhaps you are misinterpreting what I am doing. I am not trying to attack your beliefs; I am trying to understand them. However, in that process, I dissasemble, examine, and analyze each element much as I would with anything else.
This makes me feel a lot better. I very much apologize for sounding a bit defensive at times. Allow me to explain myself.

A while back, I generally ceased to discuss my philosophies with other people. Why? Because even when they would go out of their way to ask me about them in specific terms, it would always bite me in the butt very soon. Truth is, these people were very insecure about their own beliefs, (or lack thereof) and sought to create friction. Like I said, I never preached to anyone. I would only answer their questions. To me, asking someone what they believe or what religion they subscribe to is like asking what kind of music they like. I thought it was harmless cause it's essentially a personal opinion right? I'm not a bigot, I respect what others believe. Even if someone told me that they think the universe is "dead" and only exists by coincidence, I'd be like, "I see. Cool beans!" (It may not seem like that now but forums are obviously very different than real life) What I'm saying is, back in the day I thought it would be an innocent exchange of opinion. You know, "Hey, this is what I think." And then, "Oh, cool. This is what I think." "Oh, well that's just dandy!" "Yep!" I was very mistaken. No matter how gently I would communicate my thoughts, these particular people would somehow feel very threatened. I soon realized that it had nothing to do with me or how I conveyed my thoughts. It was that their sense of reality became very threatened by the magnitude of these philosophies. So I became very careful about who I shared these thoughts with, but it wasn't careful enough. The thing is, they would ask the very same questions you asked. They'd try to poke holes and challenge these ideas as a means of protecting their sense of reality. This is why I felt I had to be a bit defensive but I realize now that you meant no harm.

DRLHyper wrote:Maybe your belief in karma, which leads to self-repeating cycles, has led you to this situation again
Ahah, yes actually! Initially I was hesitant to post in this thread in fear of this outcome. Not that it's bad, but it's a lesson for me. I really, really didn't want to get into this whole discussion again. It started off small and I hesitated to speak to the idea of Karma, (we come full circle now don't we? ;) ) but I figured what the hell. I thought, "Ah, whatever. It can't be that bad." But then it spun into this same exact catalyst I experienced years ago as described above. I relearned the lesson. I don't want you to think this is a bad thing but, you probably won't see me talking about these sorts of things anymore on DM. I may entertain an idea here and there if I feel the person will resonate with it well, but I will not go on to explain myself anymore. Hah, so even though you may not believe this is the case, thank you for being a civil part of this lesson I have relearned.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby SamZee » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:29 pm

It is good to see you again, Mr. Believer! Welcome back, brother of strong convictions. I'm delighted by your presence. You sir, understand very well what it is to love one another -- even your enemies. This quality is immeasurable by any means, and I appreciate that you bring this to DM. So few have a sufficient understanding of this, and the world would be a much better place with it. Once again, welcome back, fellow child of God, as you would say it. =]
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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:29 pm

SamZee wrote:I apologize for taking so long to respond, but here we go.

No problem, I understand that everyone has a private life.
SamZee wrote:Definitely. One should be cautious. Honestly, I could write forever about this but I don't feel that would be very helpful. I'll just say this now, and that is that you learn to trust yourself. You develop a compass when stepping into what's otherwise "unknown." That compass doesn't always point to the same things as it may for others, but when it's working correctly, it always leads you down your path. Your inner voice guides you. The bountiful synchronicity guides you. You develop a sense for it.

That, I am afraid, is the crux of the problem.

'Feelings' can be faked, or, even more, manipulated. Even so-called ''gut feeling' or 'intuition'.

I may be forgiven for being unable to believe.
SamZee wrote:I certainly wouldn't call it "proof" of that. Maybe you would, but to me it just shows that we're different fragments of the Creator who are experiencing ourselves differently at this time. Forget not that when I express the Law Of One by saying that all is one, it's from a universal perspective. The true oneness exists at the level of complete unity, but it's also the source of all things. So in a way that may be difficult for some to understand, that makes everything, even at this level, a perfect part of a perfect whole. The densities are "distortions" of the oneness or "intelligent infinity." They're like the colored light that comes from a prism when the white light (source) shines through it. So you may not perceive it, but that's because your consciousness is energy at a certain level of distortion which exists at this time to know itself as a separate individual. Your free will as an individual entity must be preserved so that you may know yourself by yourself. So that you may experience things as you do by your own nature. Please forgive me for infringing upon that if I have done so. (I'll get back to that later.) So in other words, what I mean at this level is that all is united in that it is all derives from the same thing. If you want to look at it physically, then the very energy which vibrates to form the photon (or quantum) is the energy of the source.

Understandable.

To be noted however, is that photons/quatum particles do not 'vibrate'. I did understand what you are trying to say, though.
SamZee wrote:This describes almost exactly the same concepts I'm talking about. (Minus the very last part which I didn't include.) The idea that the soul is a spark of divinity is exactly what I'm talking about. It's evolved energy -- conscious energy. In some way, I believe that all religions offer some truth. I just find some of them are more or less distorted than others.

Acknowledged. Agreed on the part about religion.
SamZee wrote:I'm glad you said this.

No problem. By the way I speak, it may seem like I am an Atheist at first. I do not reject the theory of a Creator God, I am simply unable to believe it. That does not means that I believe that there is no God, because, after all, it has not been proven that there is not a God. Hence both possibilities exist. If we remove beliefs, then we are left with the truth that we simply do not know.
SamZee wrote:Honestly I haven't really looked into the Pagan tradition, but what I do know is that many "religions of old" serve to suppress good knowledge. The Catholic church for example, when they sentenced Galileo to house arrest for the rest of his life for believing that the Earth is not the center of the universe. I know you're familiar with that one. To me it's because they don't want people realizing their true identity, and their true power which they want all for themselves. But we won't go there.

The problem is that those religions had too much power. The purpose of religion is to provide the individual something to believe in. If power is given to it, however, it will seek to impose it's beliefs upon individual and collective entities that have nothing to do with religion.

That is why strict secularism has to be enforced. Religions should not be suppressed, however they should not be granted State powers. The function of religion is simply not suited to operate the State artifact, and has biased goals which, while maybee not bad in themselves, do yield terrible results when mixed with the State.
SamZee wrote:Believing one is a god is, as I'm sure you know, completely different than believing that all is divine including yourself.

"I am a God" || "I am divine".

There is certainly a difference, however it is not as great as you may think. Both imply holyness, when this is an atribute only the ascended (religious leaders and high entities) were given to, whereas the first outright implies that one has the power to become a deity.
SamZee wrote:It certainly does, and by the same token, love and harmony radiates itself as well. These opposing forces do so to further polarize themselves or to coalesce with more energy of their own polarities.

Understandable, but not necesarily true.

Even if Jews 'loved' Nazis, Nazis would still continue to hate Jews, whereas it is also possible to hate and be ignored.

Personally, my philosophy rejects both love and hate.
SamZee wrote:This makes me feel a lot better. I very much apologize for sounding a bit defensive at times.

Glad to hear that.

I do not think you have been defensive; however I believe that (as I explained before), you may have perceived me as a strong Atheist, when I am not.
SamZee wrote:Allow me to explain myself.

A while back, I generally ceased to discuss my philosophies with other people. Why? Because even when they would go out of their way to ask me about them in specific terms, it would always bite me in the butt very soon. Truth is, these people were very insecure about their own beliefs, (or lack thereof) and sought to create friction. Like I said, I never preached to anyone. I would only answer their questions. To me, asking someone what they believe or what religion they subscribe to is like asking what kind of music they like. I thought it was harmless cause it's essentially a personal opinion right? I'm not a bigot, I respect what others believe. Even if someone told me that they think the universe is "dead" and only exists by coincidence, I'd be like, "I see. Cool beans!" (It may not seem like that now but forums are obviously very different than real life) What I'm saying is, back in the day I thought it would be an innocent exchange of opinion. You know, "Hey, this is what I think." And then, "Oh, cool. This is what I think." "Oh, well that's just dandy!" "Yep!" I was very mistaken. No matter how gently I would communicate my thoughts, these particular people would somehow feel very threatened. I soon realized that it had nothing to do with me or how I conveyed my thoughts. It was that their sense of reality became very threatened by the magnitude of these philosophies. So I became very careful about who I shared these thoughts with, but it wasn't careful enough. The thing is, they would ask the very same questions you asked. They'd try to poke holes and challenge these ideas as a means of protecting their sense of reality. This is why I felt I had to be a bit defensive but I realize now that you meant no harm.

I understand.

Personally, I think your ideas are certainly reasonable. I do not agree with many of them (as you are aware), but I understand why you do follow them.
SamZee wrote:Ahah, yes actually! Initially I was hesitant to post in this thread in fear of this outcome. Not that it's bad, but it's a lesson for me. I really, really didn't want to get into this whole discussion again. It started off small and I hesitated to speak to the idea of Karma, (we come full circle now don't we? ;) ) but I figured what the hell. I thought, "Ah, whatever. It can't be that bad." But then it spun into this same exact catalyst I experienced years ago as described above. I relearned the lesson. I don't want you to think this is a bad thing but, you probably won't see me talking about these sorts of things anymore on DM. I may entertain an idea here and there if I feel the person will resonate with it well, but I will not go on to explain myself anymore. Hah, so even though you may not believe this is the case, thank you for being a civil part of this lesson I have relearned.

Philosophy is not a matter everyone can grasp. Ultimately, it is all down to indivual efforts to learn it. The people of today preffer entertainment. My family could tell you all abouve TV series, past and present; but ask them about geopolitics or history, and you will get superficial answers (they will tell you who Hitler was, but not about his occultism, for example).

Reading your post, it may seem as if you do not want to extend the conversation further. If so is the case, a pleasure discussing philosophies with you.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby 7Believer » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:06 pm

Thank you for the welcome back, my friends, and for your kind words, Samzee. I honestly appreciate them. It's good to see you, too.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby The Eagle » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:54 am

ImaMonsta wrote:Q1: Where did god come from? Don't give me that "he's always existed" bullshit, cuz if he can just randomly exist, why can't we? Everything comes from something, nothing is just there out of nothing.

The answer depends on how you define “god “in the first place. If god is just the source of all creation – and/or an all powerful entity – or if god is just an explanation from man of the unknown.

For me, god is the source of all creation – but not all powerful and all knowing. God is energy that the entire universe is created – so god is more a moment in time when all energy of the universe is collected together at one point – that all things came from.
ImaMonsta wrote:Q2: Why did he create us? was he bored? maybe had the feeling mothers feel when they know they want to have a child?

I believe god didn’t deliberately create us – more that we are a result of the energy’s interaction with itself + millions of years of evolution (some might say devolution) – changes both environmental and biological.
ImaMonsta wrote:Q3: Why are some of you sooo damn prejudice against other religions? I thought you were supposed to be tolerant, and love everyone. Not be all "You're goin to hell cuz you believe wrong!!"

Religion has nothing to do with god. Religion is a construction of man to explain god. Most religions base god on either the universal procresses or human actions/emotions. So you can say a religions god is a reflection of the people that created the religion – not actually god.
ImaMonsta wrote:Q4: It seems like you scare people into beliveing. The threat of hell of the rapture seems to be how most convince others to believe. You make god seemcruel, unforgiving, and horrible sometimes.

Fear was/is a powerful tool to get people to do things. Organised religions are a reflection of society – i.e. god of war in times where war was a major part of society, god of love when people are in need of hope. That kind of thing. You have to remember the time of when things were written and get them in context.
ImaMonsta wrote:Q5: If god really is there, he knows he created a rather intelligent race. He shouldn't really be upset for us questioning his exsitance.

Again it depends how you define god. If god is all knowing then he deliberately created people not to believe in him. Trying to avoid another free will/fate discussion – if god is all knowing then free will cannot logically exist – so everything that everyone does is gods construction and god meant for it to happen.
ImaMonsta wrote:Also, I heard that people go to hell fornot believing, even when they were just nvr informed. That is fucked up. Is that really true?? How could anyone believe that? Its not their fault they dont know and they shouldnt suffer an eternity for ignorance :wideeye:


Depends on the religion. A funny thing I was once told is that people that have never heard the name of a specific god and the story etc would not go to hell, but once warned of the story and know the religion, know the name of the god – then ignoring it would send me to hell.

So that means people that spread the word of that religion….. badly – and not convincing people its true were indirectly sending people to hell ha ha!

Basically it all comes down to the individual and what sits right with them. Religion can be a good thing but it can also be a bad thing. Just find what you want to believe in, what sits right with you – then you cant go wrong.
Organised religion imposes views – where as spirituality develops them. You don’t have to have a religion to be spiritual. You don’t have to follow a religion to find god. You don’t have to believe in god. Find what sits right with you.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby SamZee » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:47 am

:clap:

That post was excellent. Even made me laugh at the end. :lol:
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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:25 pm

The Eagle wrote:Basically it all comes down to the individual and what sits right with them. Religion can be a good thing but it can also be a bad thing. Just find what you want to believe in, what sits right with you – then you cant go wrong.
Organised religion imposes views – where as spirituality develops them. You don’t have to have a religion to be spiritual. You don’t have to follow a religion to find god. You don’t have to believe in god. Find what sits right with you.

And what would you define as 'spiritual', Mr. Eagle?
"Spirituality" is a code word of sorts: "I have a confession to make — I believe in God! I'm so sorry!" - "Your 'science' cannot explain my transcendental experiences!" - "I'm a quack. Give me all your money."
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Re: Question on religion

Postby SamZee » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:56 pm

I shall reply to your previous post in the near future, Mr. Hyper. But for now...

DRLHyper wrote:And what would you define as 'spiritual', Mr. Eagle?

Please excuse the interjection. I don't mean to butt-in and speak for him. But if I'm not mistaken, what Mr. Eagle thinks is that generally, many religions are an "outward" source of understanding. Before one becomes indoctrinated, the religion is sort of, separate from them. As time goes on, they accept what they are given. When Eagle talks about spirituality, I think he refers to the opposite concept in a way. Instead of one source teaching you what to believe and how to live, the person seeks truth and understanding through and for himself.

Would this be an accurate precursor to your response, Mr. Eagle?
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Re: Question on religion

Postby The Eagle » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:42 pm

DRLHyper wrote:
The Eagle wrote:Basically it all comes down to the individual and what sits right with them. Religion can be a good thing but it can also be a bad thing. Just find what you want to believe in, what sits right with you – then you cant go wrong.
Organised religion imposes views – where as spirituality develops them. You don’t have to have a religion to be spiritual. You don’t have to follow a religion to find god. You don’t have to believe in god. Find what sits right with you.

And what would you define as 'spiritual', Mr. Eagle?


well "spiritual" is defined as "to do with spirit" and "spirit" is defined as the "non-physical part of a person".

if spirit is the non-physical part of a person - this to me that is thoughts/emotions/beliefs. spiritual can then be described as how those thoughts/emotions/beliefs are viewed by the individual - which i think is the most important thing. not just to have thoughts - but to view those thoughts in comparison to the world , people and thoughts around you.

so my view of "spiritual" is all encompassing. An atheist is just a spiritual as someone who belives in god or indeed someone who follows a religion because its not about god - but the person. now part of of that for someone who does beleive in god or a specific religion will have the belief that god is all powerful and have beliefs about soul etc thats part of thier belief and therefore part of thier spirituality - just as an atheist may believe otherwise and that is part of thiers.

SamZee is quite correct in his post - to me "spiritual" is more an individual understanding of oneself, and from that - the understanding of the world around you. Religion can help some people with this of course - others dont need it.

To change a Bruce Lee-eske quote - i view religion like a statue pointing, its carved in stone and can't change the direction it points even if someone finds a better route. if it actually points at truth is unknown of course - but if you focus on the statue you wont be able to see where its pointing anyway. lastly if truth is in a direction, it doesnt matter which way you approach it - there are many paths as people come from different angles. :lol:
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Re: Question on religion

Postby SamZee » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:03 pm

Well said, good sir. I'm definitely with you on all of that.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby DRLHyper » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:01 am

An interesting perspective, if I say so myself.

Does not seem to fit with the definitions of Spiritual I have run into, so far.
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Re: Question on religion

Postby The Eagle » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:11 am

DRLHyper wrote:An interesting perspective, if I say so myself.

Does not seem to fit with the definitions of Spiritual I have run into, so far.


its just the dictionary definitions! :lol:

i just think the evolution of human spirituality is shifting and will be the end of organised religion - it will make everyone equal in terms of thier beliefs. i think its important to not turn spirituality into a new religion but always remain with a "step back" looking at what makes individual beliefs and when you have that view i think we can gain a spiritual understanding for all people. :)
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