What is your spirituality?

[Smiley Lord]

Like, what you consider the higher power to be like, what you do to get in touch with/understand/learn from etc whatever higher power you believe in, how you define enlightenment and how you strive to achieve it, and what you consider to be spiritual.

To kick this off and help you along, I'll answer my own questions first, to prevent any unnecessary headache.


First, my idea of a higher power is similar to The Force from Star Wars - an universal energy and will that binds everything together, keeps everything in balance and order, and provides a counteraction for every action, both physical and spiritual (karma). I do think it has some kind of sentience, but I don't think it has any anthropomorphic form or a personality, rather being an formless omnipresent force that we perceive in different ways.

I consider my striving for knowledge, the use of and reflection on any psychic ability, my seeking to understand how the world works in all it's aspects, and my internal soul searching to be my way of getting in touch with my higher power.

I define enlightenment as simply a combination of interpersonal intelligence and an understanding of yourself and the world around you through intuition. I see it as simply another means for gathering information, another lens to view yourself and the world with, another way to learn and become wiser. Because I see it as a means to an end and not an end in itself, there's no way to actually achieve it for me - instead, it's another tool for me to use in my goal of greater knowledge and power.

To me, being spiritual involves experiencing as wide a variety of things and sensations as you can, understanding yourself and the world around you in all it's aspects, gaining knowledge of and empowering yourself, and most importantly, maintaining balance and unity between all the polarities within yourself, poising yourself between the physical and spiritual, expressing and using all the aspects in yourself as needed and desired.

[heartsdreamer]

I'm keeping this short:

My spirituality is based on a Cosmic Creative Force -- a Force that never stops creating -- this creation is constantly in progress and changing the landscape. The Force Luke!

This Force is intelligent, compassionate, and loving where Karma rules. This force is sort of a "Super-Consciousness" -- prior to experience and it has no object nor subject. In other words, all is One. Without this Force/Essence there'll be no matter, no life.

This Force is the "Essence" of all there is. It is beyond human understanding.

Enlightenment? An awakening about the true Nature of the Cosmos/Reality. Knowing all things have no inherent existence (uncaused).

One who has departed from duality, attachment, ego, and deities, experiencing only Oneness. He/she is full of compassion and wisdom. He/she has a tranquil mind and a peaceful heart. This person will experience a peaceful death.

Spirituality? An Inner Journey of the heart towards Oneness. No religions and no man made gods are needed. A path to the true Self.

A path to get in touch with the Force--the Essence of who we are. It's formless, and it has no attributes. A path that one can start by first transforming the "false" ego to an "authentic" one.

The Force Luke--The Force!

[BLUE]

Spiritual yes ...of one religion no. I don't necessarily believe that one religion is wrong and the other is right. What if we are all wrong...or all right. I don't believe in pushing my beliefs on anyone else. Learning and hearing other peoples ideas and beliefs has always been interesting to me. If they talk to me..I will listen. If they preach to me..I will go. I believe that God/Higher Power is all around us...and though I do love churches don't necessarily think you have to go into one to see Him.

[Tal]

I belong to a religion but I chose it for myself. However, it does not define me and I question its tenets often. My spirituality is something else altogether. It's not just about metaphysical aspects, it also is who I am in my conscious life. To me it's not just about what happens after death/what deitiy is worshipped/which religious organisation I belong to. Spirituality is about WHO I am as a person. All those small things that make up the whole and I'm including physical and intellectual traits in this. BodyMindSpirit. These three aspects are necessary in equal measures to make a balanced whole. Without one the whole suffers.

[drewterry]

My beliefs change all the time. I am not religious. I believe there is an essence to all things. There is an essence to the universe. I believe that there are other forms of physical intelligent life in this universe and other universes. To me everything is energy even matter. Matter is just solidified energy and consciousness is energy as well. I think enlightenment is acceptance. Learning to accept oneself flaws and all. Learning to stop putting on masks like your job or your house or your bills or even your friends. Just being able to be yourself all by yourself and to be who you are in private in public. Enlightenment to me is honesty. Its saying what you mean and meaning what you say and learning to be honest with yourself about both the good and bad. I believe in Jesus I believe that he is an ascended being who is in touch with the essence of everything and I believe he found that by being in touch with his own essence. I also believe in the teachings of Jesus as well as the teachings of Krishna. At the heart of everything is nothing but that nothing is something itself in fact it is everything that there is. I tend to think that all myths and religions contain some grain of truth to them. But I think how people percieved those truths is what led to the differences in them. All there really is, is knowing and with knowing comes understanding and with understanding comes wisdom and with wisdom comes acceptance and with acceptance comes freedom. Everything is about balance. Its neither all good nor is it all bad. It is what it is and whether it is good or bad is all up to you and how you choose to look at it.

[Cennedi]

My pesonal belief is one born out of studying the elements for probably far too long. I know its a bit cliche but i believe very strongly in a four element universe, one leading into the next but never across the circle to its polar opposite

this is how it goes

Air
Water Fire
Earth

I believe that every living thing in the world has the possibility for ALL FOUR of these elements, though most tend to anchor themselves to one. There are multitudes of personal translations for each and every one of these elements and most of them are correct in their way of thinking, but this is where my ideals differ. I believe while we are anchored in a single element, we have the ability to reach out towards a second or possibly even a third. In this theory it could be possible to reach across the circle to your polar opposite, but the only outcome i could possibly forsee in such a situation would be the development of emotional and mental instabilities such as a bi-polar disorder or multiple personalities.

One doesn't pick which element they are on simply what they want to be, but on how they react to the world around them. Using the example of hardships, someone faced with such and yet anchored in the the single element of earth, would become stubborn and unmoving in their resolve, but if pushed further, something more can happen. If they were to reach out to another one of their elements such as an eath element would reach out to fire, their stubborness would eventually turn into anger, pushing forward against the force that assails them whereas they were unmoving before. Replace the fire with the water element and instead of pushing back against hardship, they would simply slip around them.

An air element in this situation would avoid the hardship entirely, even if it meant not getting what they wanted the first place.

[belle_enigma]

I wanted to revive this topic since I am curious as to the rest of people's beliefs on this forum. I don't wish this to become argumentative. I would like for people to share what it is they believe and explain their spiritual goals and how they intend to achieve them.

Higher Power?
Your relationship with that higher power?
Afterlife?
Spiritual goals?
How to reach those goals?
Philosophy?

I believe we can not know for sure. However, I sense there is a higher power, but I don't answer to it and it does not have a constant presence in my life. I live my life regardless of higher power. I have a theory for the afterlife... I think that those souls who are meant to go to heaven and be with God, do, and those souls who don't connect with God get stuck in the reincarnation cycle, but those souls can escape the reincarnation cycle through psycho-spiritual development in which they can die, but continue to live in the astral as a spirit and still continue to advance themselves till they become something of a God themselves. I think some souls are meant to connect with the consciousness of the universe, God or whatever you want to call it and others are meant separate and survive on their own in the universe. I would consider myself the kind of soul that is meant to individuate instead of unify, so my spiritual goal would be to break the reincarnation cycle through enlightenment by means of developing spiritually and psychically. My philosophy is a combination of different quotes and teachings that ring true within me. The Tao is one of the biggest ones for me. Learning to accept everything and know it to be ever changing seems to be the path to inner peace.

[barberchk]

sprituality?
for me,it means my belief in god.
feeling the holy ghost and his spirit around me.
without that,i would be lost and my life a disaster like it was a year ago.

[belle_enigma]

sprituality?
for me,it means my belief in god.
feeling the holy ghost and his spirit around me.
without that,i would be lost and my life a disaster like it was a year ago.

You didn't really elaborate on what you perceive god to be. Nor did you talk about what your spiritual goals are.

[heartsdreamer]

One of the main principles of spirituality is trying to find your own "Self."

You are not your ego
you are not your thoughts
you are not your body
you are not your possessions, nor your class status, etc
.
.
Shall I continue?

[Nostalgic]

I am not really sure to be honest?

I don't believe in any god and have mixed opinions on the after life.

[belle_enigma]

I am not really sure to be honest?

I don't believe in any god and have mixed opinions on the after life.

Not really sure is good. Frankly, I feel that people can never be really sure when it comes to spirituality, but it's nice to think about and conceptualize and share with others what ideas you may have about it.

[Nostalgic]

I am not really sure to be honest?

I don't believe in any god and have mixed opinions on the after life.

Not really sure is good. Frankly, I feel that people can never be really sure when it comes to spirituality, but it's nice to think about and conceptualize and share with others what ideas you may have about it.

True,

I think I believe in reincarnationbut I don' know. This comes from the idea that our energy can't die and it gets put into someone else, But I also like the idea of living a new life over and over until you have experienced everything and can truly understand the world at the end.

I often believe if I did have a past life that I died in a war. This comes from a really weird feeling I get when I see people shot in films, Not a scared feeling but almost as if I understand how it feels and feel it with out the pain. That could be a past life or a random I hate seeing people shot feeling.

I believe in Spirits as I have seen some but have not decided if this is because they are hanging around or that their energy is just on a loop until it burns out?

I definitely believe in the power of the mind and I should definitely meditate more often than I do.

[belle_enigma]

I am not really sure to be honest?

I don't believe in any god and have mixed opinions on the after life.

Not really sure is good. Frankly, I feel that people can never be really sure when it comes to spirituality, but it's nice to think about and conceptualize and share with others what ideas you may have about it.

True,

I think I believe in reincarnationbut I don' know. This comes from the idea that our energy can't die and it gets put into someone else, But I also like the idea of living a new life over and over until you have experienced everything and can truly understand the world at the end.

I often believe if I did have a past life that I died in a war. This comes from a really weird feeling I get when I see people shot in films, Not a scared feeling but almost as if I understand how it feels and feel it with out the pain. That could be a past life or a random I hate seeing people shot feeling.

I believe in Spirits as I have seen some but have not decided if this is because they are hanging around or that their energy is just on a loop until it burns out?

I definitely believe in the power of the mind and I should definitely meditate more often than I do.

"The idea that our energy can't die and it gets put into someone else." I like this. I feel physics explains this idea such as the law that states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Then there is Albert Einstein's theory of relativity which shows that energy and mass are the same thing, and that neither one appears without the other. I always felt like science is a better explanation for spirituality than religion. A really good movie that I suggest you take a look at is What the Bleep do we know? http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/what_the_bleep_do_we_know.php Good stuff.

I should add to take it with a grain of salt. The movie presents an alternative view, not truth.

[Nostalgic]

Thanks, I will take a look, And no worries everything I watch is open minded,

Example, I don't believe in a god but I think the Richard dawkins movies were a load of crap, He is a hard core atheist and tries to brain wash people into science.

Ok he has some scientific proofs but watching that I was on religions side as he was just as brain washing as extremists are in religion (note the word extremists not religious people in general).

I think like you about Science to a point, is a better explanation than religion regarding spirituality and what goes on outside of our knowing.

I always think that the human brain has evolved to much to understand our own thoughts and this is why people need or want spirituality and religion,

In saying this though I believe that god exists to those who believe in him as I believe the mind is a powerful thing and he does help those who believe in him/her/it. I just look at the help as the persons own mind doing the job where as they believe it is god.

For example if I am meditating and pretend I am floating in water I will feel my body float and lift of the bed "levitation" But in reality I am lying flat on my back in bed because levitation is impossible (in my mind any ways) but I really feel the bed disappear because my mind believes it has.

[Nostalgic]

::EDIT:: See above, for some reason it posted twice as if I was quoting myself?

[heartsdreamer]

Science does not deal with the paranormal at all. Period!

The purpose of science is to describe the workings of the world.

Quantum physicists does not do research in the paranormal either.

[Nostalgic]

I never said it did

Can you elaborate please, I duns get it

[belle_enigma]

Science does not deal with the paranormal at all. Period!

The purpose of science is to describe the workings of the world.

Quantum physicists does not do research in the paranormal either.

No it doesn't heartsdreamer, but you can use science to help answer some spiritual questions like the workings of the world no?

[heartsdreamer]

It can help but who is going to put the money for the research? Not too many physicists will be willing to take the challenge but some perhaps will.

[Smiley Lord]

Science does not deal with the paranormal at all. Period!

The purpose of science is to describe the workings of the world.

Quantum physicists does not do research in the paranormal either.

I must disagree with you on that... Did you know that the USA and the USSR conducted extensive research on psychic powers during the Cold War? Did you know that some theories in the more, shall we say, "otherworldly" fields like Quantum Mechanics and Chaos Theory parallel certain spiritual concepts or provide evidence for them?

[growingchild90]

I wanted to revive this topic since I am curious as to the rest of people's beliefs on this forum. I don't wish this to become argumentative. I would like for people to share what it is they believe and explain their spiritual goals and how they intend to achieve them.

Higher Power?
Your relationship with that higher power?
Afterlife?
Spiritual goals?
How to reach those goals?
Philosophy?

I believe in the One true God, maker of heaven and Earth. My relationship with Him, he is my best friend. He hears my every plea, every joy, he cares about everything in my life. Everyday im learning something new about Him. My goals are to be more and more like him each day. To have joy, peace, pacients,kindness,selflessness. And to love without ceasing. I will be learning and growing until one day i achieve the ultimate perfection, being with him in heaven. I believe the Bible to be truth, i study it and put it into practice as much as possible. I dont have alot of strong theological points, I know what i know. I dont like to argue about petty issues. Im not judgemental, or close minded becuase i believe that there is only ONE GOD. I do believe that if you dont accept Jesus' death on the cross and you dont enter into a personal relationship with God you will goto Hell. I dont believe there is anything we can do to earn our way into Heaven, i think we just have to understand that God loves us, just simply becuase he does. and all you have to do is accept it. and live it. I find it interesting all the different views on here. I know in my heart and i see it in my life and the lives of others the God is real. and id love to share with you His love!

[belle_enigma]

I wanted to revive this topic since I am curious as to the rest of people's beliefs on this forum. I don't wish this to become argumentative. I would like for people to share what it is they believe and explain their spiritual goals and how they intend to achieve them.

Higher Power?
Your relationship with that higher power?
Afterlife?
Spiritual goals?
How to reach those goals?
Philosophy?

I believe in the One true God, maker of heaven and Earth. My relationship with Him, he is my best friend. He hears my every plea, every joy, he cares about everything in my life. Everyday im learning something new about Him. My goals are to be more and more like him each day. To have joy, peace, pacients,kindness,selflessness. And to love without ceasing. I will be learning and growing until one day i achieve the ultimate perfection, being with him in heaven. I believe the Bible to be truth, i study it and put it into practice as much as possible. I dont have alot of strong theological points, I know what i know. I dont like to argue about petty issues. Im not judgemental, or close minded becuase i believe that there is only ONE GOD. I do believe that if you dont accept Jesus' death on the cross and you dont enter into a personal relationship with God you will goto Hell. I dont believe there is anything we can do to earn our way into Heaven, i think we just have to understand that God loves us, just simply becuase he does. and all you have to do is accept it. and live it. I find it interesting all the different views on here. I know in my heart and i see it in my life and the lives of others the God is real. and id love to share with you His love!

How do you have a personal relationship with God? It seems contradictory to me that God would hold the qualities of joy, peace, patience, kindness and selflessness and yet not let all his creations into heaven. Shouldn't the love in the heart of a parent overlook it's children's flaws? What do you make of the following passage from the Bible... "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (SAB 1 Corinthians 11:7-9)?

[Tryptamine Serpentine]

Since objects loose their properties on the atomic level, I'm inclined to believe that our 'waking' reality is similar to/IS a dream. You could say I believe that stars would be analogous to neurons that are collectively keeping the cosmic dream alive and complex/articulated. Since besides the universe itself, the brain, and more specifically the Neocortex, is the most advanced piece of technology we know of; similar truths/patterns of existence would arise. Although the universe is infinitely more powerful/complicated than the human brain, the phenomenon of the dream is the closest thing we have to compare our little pictures to the big picture to.

_____

And since dreams are subjective pieces of art they can mean what ever you wish them to be. Therefor I believe our lives are subjective pieces of art, without predetermined meaning or purpose, one big circus act where anything goes. Love/hate and everything in between are all part of one fabric of energy that we can all access. The universe/higher order is one infinitely long and complex symphony, of which we are all contributing instruments.

As George Carlin put it: "The big electron; it doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is, and so are we. For a little while..."

[growingchild90]

I believe in the One true God, maker of heaven and Earth. My relationship with Him, he is my best friend. He hears my every plea, every joy, he cares about everything in my life. Everyday im learning something new about Him. My goals are to be more and more like him each day. To have joy, peace, pacients,kindness,selflessness. And to love without ceasing. I will be learning and growing until one day i achieve the ultimate perfection, being with him in heaven. I believe the Bible to be truth, i study it and put it into practice as much as possible. I dont have alot of strong theological points, I know what i know. I dont like to argue about petty issues. Im not judgemental, or close minded becuase i believe that there is only ONE GOD. I do believe that if you dont accept Jesus' death on the cross and you dont enter into a personal relationship with God you will goto Hell. I dont believe there is anything we can do to earn our way into Heaven, i think we just have to understand that God loves us, just simply becuase he does. and all you have to do is accept it. and live it. I find it interesting all the different views on here. I know in my heart and i see it in my life and the lives of others the God is real. and id love to share with you His love!

How do you have a personal relationship with God? It seems contradictory to me that God would hold the qualities of joy, peace, patience, kindness and selflessness and yet not let all his creations into heaven. Shouldn't the love in the heart of a parent overlook it's children's flaws? What do you make of the following passage from the Bible... "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (SAB 1 Corinthians 11:7-9)?[/quote]


In saying i have a personal relationship with God im not saying that he talks directly to me, tells me the secrets of this world. Im saying that I recognize that i cant do this life on my own, and that i need help. I dont like asking for help from any one, im a very independent person. but i tried doing life on my own, and it didnt work, so i turned to God. I pray , read the Bible, talk to mentors, goto to church to learn more. Its like any other relationship , it requires time and effort. And also God does overlook the flaws of his children, If you are a child of God you are perfect to God. God loves every single one of us, but He made us with the ability to choose. If he forced us to love him, it wouldnt be real love. "Only when you are given the freedom to choose does love become real." But on the other hand we only have the ability love because God first loved us. And for the passage, first off i am no Bible scholar, but when u include the verses around that verse, this is refering to propriety in worship. Talking about men arnt supposed to cover their heads and women are supposed to cover their heads during worship. This verse is Pauls advise applied directly to the cultural situation in Corinth, where unruly women were disrupting the worship services. If you read furthur down in the passage it goes on to say in verse 11 "IN the LOrd ,however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God."

[belle_enigma]

I believe in the One true God, maker of heaven and Earth. My relationship with Him, he is my best friend. He hears my every plea, every joy, he cares about everything in my life. Everyday im learning something new about Him. My goals are to be more and more like him each day. To have joy, peace, pacients,kindness,selflessness. And to love without ceasing. I will be learning and growing until one day i achieve the ultimate perfection, being with him in heaven. I believe the Bible to be truth, i study it and put it into practice as much as possible. I dont have alot of strong theological points, I know what i know. I dont like to argue about petty issues. Im not judgemental, or close minded becuase i believe that there is only ONE GOD. I do believe that if you dont accept Jesus' death on the cross and you dont enter into a personal relationship with God you will goto Hell. I dont believe there is anything we can do to earn our way into Heaven, i think we just have to understand that God loves us, just simply becuase he does. and all you have to do is accept it. and live it. I find it interesting all the different views on here. I know in my heart and i see it in my life and the lives of others the God is real. and id love to share with you His love!

How do you have a personal relationship with God? It seems contradictory to me that God would hold the qualities of joy, peace, patience, kindness and selflessness and yet not let all his creations into heaven. Shouldn't the love in the heart of a parent overlook it's children's flaws? What do you make of the following passage from the Bible... "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (SAB 1 Corinthians 11:7-9)?

In saying i have a personal relationship with God im not saying that he talks directly to me, tells me the secrets of this world. Im saying that I recognize that i cant do this life on my own, and that i need help. I dont like asking for help from any one, im a very independent person. but i tried doing life on my own, and it didnt work, so i turned to God. I pray , read the Bible, talk to mentors, goto to church to learn more. Its like any other relationship , it requires time and effort. And also God does overlook the flaws of his children, If you are a child of God you are perfect to God. God loves every single one of us, but He made us with the ability to choose. If he forced us to love him, it wouldnt be real love. "Only when you are given the freedom to choose does love become real." But on the other hand we only have the ability love because God first loved us. And for the passage, first off i am no Bible scholar, but when u include the verses around that verse, this is refering to propriety in worship. Talking about men arnt supposed to cover their heads and women are supposed to cover their heads during worship. This verse is Pauls advise applied directly to the cultural situation in Corinth, where unruly women were disrupting the worship services. If you read furthur down in the passage it goes on to say in verse 11 "IN the LOrd ,however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God."[/quote]

I don't quite see how sending your children to suffer for eternity because they didn't come to accept god in their lives equates to love. You have redefined love for me apparently. "True love" is giving people the choice to do as they will and then punishing them for making the wrong choice. Somehow that makes it "real." Would you rather interpret the passage by listening to a Bible scholar interpret it for you or would rather interpret it for yourself? I agree that if you read further down it decides to contradict itself, also if you read further before... " But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Corinthians 11:3)" And you say women were unruly? It doesn't talk about certain women being unruly only that it is not allowed for women to uncover their heads whereas men should never cover their heads and it explains this law by saying that women are not equal to men, that they were made for men. Anyway, I agree that the later statement is a lot better than the two previous statements. Would you suggest I ignore the two previous passages? Or do you think the Bible gives only good advice?

[*Sai*]

I believe in the One true God, maker of heaven and Earth. My relationship with Him, he is my best friend. He hears my every plea, every joy, he cares about everything in my life. Everyday im learning something new about Him. My goals are to be more and more like him each day. To have joy, peace, pacients,kindness,selflessness. And to love without ceasing. I will be learning and growing until one day i achieve the ultimate perfection, being with him in heaven. I believe the Bible to be truth, i study it and put it into practice as much as possible. I dont have alot of strong theological points, I know what i know. I dont like to argue about petty issues. Im not judgemental, or close minded becuase i believe that there is only ONE GOD. I do believe that if you dont accept Jesus' death on the cross and you dont enter into a personal relationship with God you will goto Hell. I dont believe there is anything we can do to earn our way into Heaven, i think we just have to understand that God loves us, just simply becuase he does. and all you have to do is accept it. and live it. I find it interesting all the different views on here. I know in my heart and i see it in my life and the lives of others the God is real. and id love to share with you His love!

How do you have a personal relationship with God? It seems contradictory to me that God would hold the qualities of joy, peace, patience, kindness and selflessness and yet not let all his creations into heaven. Shouldn't the love in the heart of a parent overlook it's children's flaws? What do you make of the following passage from the Bible... "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (SAB 1 Corinthians 11:7-9)?

In saying i have a personal relationship with God im not saying that he talks directly to me, tells me the secrets of this world. Im saying that I recognize that i cant do this life on my own, and that i need help. I dont like asking for help from any one, im a very independent person. but i tried doing life on my own, and it didnt work, so i turned to God. I pray , read the Bible, talk to mentors, goto to church to learn more. Its like any other relationship , it requires time and effort. And also God does overlook the flaws of his children, If you are a child of God you are perfect to God. God loves every single one of us, but He made us with the ability to choose. If he forced us to love him, it wouldnt be real love. "Only when you are given the freedom to choose does love become real." But on the other hand we only have the ability love because God first loved us. And for the passage, first off i am no Bible scholar, but when u include the verses around that verse, this is refering to propriety in worship. Talking about men arnt supposed to cover their heads and women are supposed to cover their heads during worship. This verse is Pauls advise applied directly to the cultural situation in Corinth, where unruly women were disrupting the worship services. If you read furthur down in the passage it goes on to say in verse 11 "IN the LOrd ,however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God."[/quote]

Classic example of individual interpretation... and I'm sure you're both right but to be honest it doesn't matter how you wish to interpret something or practice God worship as long as it remains your own personal way of spiritual interaction and not the ONLY RIGHT WAY to worship.... there are no right and wrong paths... your relationship with God is your own private issue... It's funny how people don't feel the need to dictate how you should act with your husband or how you should practice your relationship with your mother... but with God we're all suddenly experts and have the 'facts and figures' to back it up!....

[belle_enigma]

I believe in the One true God, maker of heaven and Earth. My relationship with Him, he is my best friend. He hears my every plea, every joy, he cares about everything in my life. Everyday im learning something new about Him. My goals are to be more and more like him each day. To have joy, peace, pacients,kindness,selflessness. And to love without ceasing. I will be learning and growing until one day i achieve the ultimate perfection, being with him in heaven. I believe the Bible to be truth, i study it and put it into practice as much as possible. I dont have alot of strong theological points, I know what i know. I dont like to argue about petty issues. Im not judgemental, or close minded becuase i believe that there is only ONE GOD. I do believe that if you dont accept Jesus' death on the cross and you dont enter into a personal relationship with God you will goto Hell. I dont believe there is anything we can do to earn our way into Heaven, i think we just have to understand that God loves us, just simply becuase he does. and all you have to do is accept it. and live it. I find it interesting all the different views on here. I know in my heart and i see it in my life and the lives of others the God is real. and id love to share with you His love!

How do you have a personal relationship with God? It seems contradictory to me that God would hold the qualities of joy, peace, patience, kindness and selflessness and yet not let all his creations into heaven. Shouldn't the love in the heart of a parent overlook it's children's flaws? What do you make of the following passage from the Bible... "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (SAB 1 Corinthians 11:7-9)?

In saying i have a personal relationship with God im not saying that he talks directly to me, tells me the secrets of this world. Im saying that I recognize that i cant do this life on my own, and that i need help. I dont like asking for help from any one, im a very independent person. but i tried doing life on my own, and it didnt work, so i turned to God. I pray , read the Bible, talk to mentors, goto to church to learn more. Its like any other relationship , it requires time and effort. And also God does overlook the flaws of his children, If you are a child of God you are perfect to God. God loves every single one of us, but He made us with the ability to choose. If he forced us to love him, it wouldnt be real love. "Only when you are given the freedom to choose does love become real." But on the other hand we only have the ability love because God first loved us. And for the passage, first off i am no Bible scholar, but when u include the verses around that verse, this is refering to propriety in worship. Talking about men arnt supposed to cover their heads and women are supposed to cover their heads during worship. This verse is Pauls advise applied directly to the cultural situation in Corinth, where unruly women were disrupting the worship services. If you read furthur down in the passage it goes on to say in verse 11 "IN the LOrd ,however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God."

Classic example of individual interpretation... and I'm sure you're both right but to be honest it doesn't matter how you wish to interpret something or practice God worship as long as it remains your own personal way of spiritual interaction and not the ONLY RIGHT WAY to worship.... there are no right and wrong paths... your relationship with God is your own private issue... It's funny how people don't feel the need to dictate how you should act with your husband or how you should practice your relationship with your mother... but with God we're all suddenly experts and have the 'facts and figures' to back it up!.... [/quote]

That's my point. Being Christian automatically says, "I'm right. You're wrong."

[belle_enigma]

Since objects loose their properties on the atomic level, I'm inclined to believe that our 'waking' reality is similar to/IS a dream. You could say I believe that stars would be analogous to neurons that are collectively keeping the cosmic dream alive and complex/articulated. Since besides the universe itself, the brain, and more specifically the Neocortex, is the most advanced piece of technology we know of; similar truths/patterns of existence would arise. Although the universe is infinitely more powerful/complicated than the human brain, the phenomenon of the dream is the closest thing we have to compare our little pictures to the big picture to.

_____

And since dreams are subjective pieces of art they can mean what ever you wish them to be. Therefor I believe our lives are subjective pieces of art, without predetermined meaning or purpose, one big circus act where anything goes. Love/hate and everything in between are all part of one fabric of energy that we can all access. The universe/higher order is one infinitely long and complex symphony, of which we are all contributing instruments.

As George Carlin put it: "The big electron; it doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is, and so are we. For a little while..."

This is interesting. I think your ideas are way to out there for me to completely understand though. Everything is connected is what I got out of it. "Reality is a dream" could you explain this more for me?

[Tryptamine Serpentine]

The core physics of the dream scape and our waking reality scape hold many parallels.

Such as the illusion of stability and separation amongst matter.

And that consciousness/awareness/sentience itself is both the mind and body, it is the observer and the observed. This would be like saying that traces of the divine or "the force" are in all things.


The dream is a model of information, rather than the actual true perception of information; our waking perceptions follow the same pattern. The waking brain creates a model of incoming information; all thoughts and senses one feels are all manifested by tiny endogenous lightening bolts and chemicals, the brain synthesizes a world when stimulated by incoming raw electrical information processed through the neocortex and the other systems of the brain.

Here's a cool video I've posted elsewhere explaining the concept more thoroughly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS3wMC2BpxU.

[growingchild90]

I believe in the One true God, maker of heaven and Earth. My relationship with Him, he is my best friend. He hears my every plea, every joy, he cares about everything in my life. Everyday im learning something new about Him. My goals are to be more and more like him each day. To have joy, peace, pacients,kindness,selflessness. And to love without ceasing. I will be learning and growing until one day i achieve the ultimate perfection, being with him in heaven. I believe the Bible to be truth, i study it and put it into practice as much as possible. I dont have alot of strong theological points, I know what i know. I dont like to argue about petty issues. Im not judgemental, or close minded becuase i believe that there is only ONE GOD. I do believe that if you dont accept Jesus' death on the cross and you dont enter into a personal relationship with God you will goto Hell. I dont believe there is anything we can do to earn our way into Heaven, i think we just have to understand that God loves us, just simply becuase he does. and all you have to do is accept it. and live it. I find it interesting all the different views on here. I know in my heart and i see it in my life and the lives of others the God is real. and id love to share with you His love!

How do you have a personal relationship with God? It seems contradictory to me that God would hold the qualities of joy, peace, patience, kindness and selflessness and yet not let all his creations into heaven. Shouldn't the love in the heart of a parent overlook it's children's flaws? What do you make of the following passage from the Bible... "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (SAB 1 Corinthians 11:7-9)?

In saying i have a personal relationship with God im not saying that he talks directly to me, tells me the secrets of this world. Im saying that I recognize that i cant do this life on my own, and that i need help. I dont like asking for help from any one, im a very independent person. but i tried doing life on my own, and it didnt work, so i turned to God. I pray , read the Bible, talk to mentors, goto to church to learn more. Its like any other relationship , it requires time and effort. And also God does overlook the flaws of his children, If you are a child of God you are perfect to God. God loves every single one of us, but He made us with the ability to choose. If he forced us to love him, it wouldnt be real love. "Only when you are given the freedom to choose does love become real." But on the other hand we only have the ability love because God first loved us. And for the passage, first off i am no Bible scholar, but when u include the verses around that verse, this is refering to propriety in worship. Talking about men arnt supposed to cover their heads and women are supposed to cover their heads during worship. This verse is Pauls advise applied directly to the cultural situation in Corinth, where unruly women were disrupting the worship services. If you read furthur down in the passage it goes on to say in verse 11 "IN the LOrd ,however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God."

I don't quite see how sending your children to suffer for eternity because they didn't come to accept god in their lives equates to love. You have redefined love for me apparently. "True love" is giving people the choice to do as they will and then punishing them for making the wrong choice. Somehow that makes it "real." Would you rather interpret the passage by listening to a Bible scholar interpret it for you or would rather interpret it for yourself? I agree that if you read further down it decides to contradict itself, also if you read further before... " But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Corinthians 11:3)" And you say women were unruly? It doesn't talk about certain women being unruly only that it is not allowed for women to uncover their heads whereas men should never cover their heads and it explains this law by saying that women are not equal to men, that they were made for men. Anyway, I agree that the later statement is a lot better than the two previous statements. Would you suggest I ignore the two previous passages? Or do you think the Bible gives only good advice?[/quote]

The interpretation i gave was strictly my own opionion, im not saying it was totally on point, like i said im no Bible scholar. But it is what the passage is talking about, the deeper meanings behind it i cant fully explain to you, and im not going to try because i dont watn to give you the wrong interpretation. God made us to glorify Him, that is our main purpose on earth, whether you believe that or not. God is giving you the chance right now, every day your breathing to turn your life to him, to run to him, and he promises to take care of you and love you. but people deny his love and dont accept it. that is what they choose. God can enter into your heart and change you, but you have to choose to accept him. When you turn away from Gods free gift of eternal life, your choosing to goto Hell. God dosent desire for any of his children to go. You have to accept him as your father. As for the man and woman, Man was created in Gods image, God creadted the woman from the rib of a man, the woman was to submit to her husband, and the man was to honor his wife. Many christians argue about the idea of woman being in leadership and such, but no where in the Bible does it say men are better than woman. They might have treated there woman this way in Bible times and certain countrys still do today. but that is not Gods intention. Im not a very brainy person, i suck at science and math, and pretty much all scholastic things. So i cant sit and argue my point with you from an intelegent (which i spelt wrong) point of view. But what I can tell you is I see the work of a Creator all around and in my life. There is no way there isnt a God , who doesnt love me. I have experienced too much awesome works , that i refuse to put off as coincidence. and been through some aweful shit, and been able to have joy through out it all. How does that happen, how do i go through the worst time in my life and be able to be way too happy. I just wish everyone could experience this joy and peace, that only comes from this TRUE GOD. I value idividuality and personality, but i wont sit back and say that believing what ever you want is okay because its not. i love people too much to let them live misrable lives. Now what i dont understand is why is it that if i were talking about some alien race or mystic power that control the desitny of the universe no one would question that, why is it that people are more willing to believe that?

this is a good poem of how true christianity should be -http://wilk4.com/misc/whenisay.htm

[Trollolle]

I try not to spend too much but i occasionally go overboard. What is your usual spending limit? Whats the highest amount youve spent?

[heartsdreamer]

The core physics of the dream scape and our waking reality scape hold many parallels.

Such as the illusion of stability and separation amongst matter.

And that consciousness/awareness/sentience itself is both the mind and body, it is the observer and the observed. This would be like saying that traces of the divine or "the force" are in all things.


The dream is a model of information, rather than the actual true perception of information; our waking perceptions follow the same pattern. The waking brain creates a model of incoming information; all thoughts and senses one feels are all manifested by tiny endogenous lightening bolts and chemicals, the brain synthesizes a world when stimulated by incoming raw electrical information processed through the neocortex and the other systems of the brain.

Here's a cool video I've posted elsewhere explaining the concept more thoroughly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS3wMC2BpxU.

Scientists have never been able to find consciousness nor the mind originating in the brain. In fact, no energy exchanges using the most sensitive measurement devices have ever been measured.

They have found out the firing of neurons do not give rise to consciousness nor the mind as the materialists and reductionists want us to believe.

[belle_enigma]

I believe in the One true God, maker of heaven and Earth. My relationship with Him, he is my best friend. He hears my every plea, every joy, he cares about everything in my life. Everyday im learning something new about Him. My goals are to be more and more like him each day. To have joy, peace, pacients,kindness,selflessness. And to love without ceasing. I will be learning and growing until one day i achieve the ultimate perfection, being with him in heaven. I believe the Bible to be truth, i study it and put it into practice as much as possible. I dont have alot of strong theological points, I know what i know. I dont like to argue about petty issues. Im not judgemental, or close minded becuase i believe that there is only ONE GOD. I do believe that if you dont accept Jesus' death on the cross and you dont enter into a personal relationship with God you will goto Hell. I dont believe there is anything we can do to earn our way into Heaven, i think we just have to understand that God loves us, just simply becuase he does. and all you have to do is accept it. and live it. I find it interesting all the different views on here. I know in my heart and i see it in my life and the lives of others the God is real. and id love to share with you His love!

How do you have a personal relationship with God? It seems contradictory to me that God would hold the qualities of joy, peace, patience, kindness and selflessness and yet not let all his creations into heaven. Shouldn't the love in the heart of a parent overlook it's children's flaws? What do you make of the following passage from the Bible... "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (SAB 1 Corinthians 11:7-9)?

In saying i have a personal relationship with God im not saying that he talks directly to me, tells me the secrets of this world. Im saying that I recognize that i cant do this life on my own, and that i need help. I dont like asking for help from any one, im a very independent person. but i tried doing life on my own, and it didnt work, so i turned to God. I pray , read the Bible, talk to mentors, goto to church to learn more. Its like any other relationship , it requires time and effort. And also God does overlook the flaws of his children, If you are a child of God you are perfect to God. God loves every single one of us, but He made us with the ability to choose. If he forced us to love him, it wouldnt be real love. "Only when you are given the freedom to choose does love become real." But on the other hand we only have the ability love because God first loved us. And for the passage, first off i am no Bible scholar, but when u include the verses around that verse, this is refering to propriety in worship. Talking about men arnt supposed to cover their heads and women are supposed to cover their heads during worship. This verse is Pauls advise applied directly to the cultural situation in Corinth, where unruly women were disrupting the worship services. If you read furthur down in the passage it goes on to say in verse 11 "IN the LOrd ,however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God."

I don't quite see how sending your children to suffer for eternity because they didn't come to accept god in their lives equates to love. You have redefined love for me apparently. "True love" is giving people the choice to do as they will and then punishing them for making the wrong choice. Somehow that makes it "real." Would you rather interpret the passage by listening to a Bible scholar interpret it for you or would rather interpret it for yourself? I agree that if you read further down it decides to contradict itself, also if you read further before... " But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Corinthians 11:3)" And you say women were unruly? It doesn't talk about certain women being unruly only that it is not allowed for women to uncover their heads whereas men should never cover their heads and it explains this law by saying that women are not equal to men, that they were made for men. Anyway, I agree that the later statement is a lot better than the two previous statements. Would you suggest I ignore the two previous passages? Or do you think the Bible gives only good advice?

The interpretation i gave was strictly my own opionion, im not saying it was totally on point, like i said im no Bible scholar. But it is what the passage is talking about, the deeper meanings behind it i cant fully explain to you, and im not going to try because i dont watn to give you the wrong interpretation.

The big issue here is that you shouldn't have to be a Bible scholar to understand your Bible.

God made us to glorify Him, that is our main purpose on earth, whether you believe that or not.

Why does God want you to glorify him?

God is giving you the chance right now, every day your breathing to turn your life to him, to run to him, and he promises to take care of you and love you.

Why can't God love a person regardless of if they're running to him and giving their life to him?

but people deny his love and dont accept it. that is what they choose.

It would be difficult to deny God's love if it has never been offered to me.

God can enter into your heart and change you, but you have to choose to accept him.

Change me to what?

When you turn away from Gods free gift of eternal life, your choosing to goto Hell.

LOL So turning away eternal life means hell? I would have assumed if I don't get eternal life then my life would end... so hell kind of goes out the window too doesn't it?

God dosent desire for any of his children to go. You have to accept him as your father.

Again, this is an example of God's selective love.

As for the man and woman, Man was created in Gods image, God creadted the woman from the rib of a man, the woman was to submit to her husband, and the man was to honor his wife.

So you see the inequality in that right? Not to mention the fictional magic involved.

Many christians argue about the idea of woman being in leadership and such, but no where in the Bible does it say men are better than woman.

Oh really??

"For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel,and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered." (SAB, 1 Peter 3)

Women are the weaker vessel and women are meant to serve their husbands. This is the very definition of sexism.

They might have treated there woman this way in Bible times and certain countrys still do today. but that is not Gods intention.

People in the United States still do today. For some reason the Bible has a lot of God telling women to serve their husbands and obey them and putting us at a lower status than men.

Im not a very brainy person, i suck at science and math, and pretty much all scholastic things. So i cant sit and argue my point with you from an intelegent (which i spelt wrong) point of view.

Maybe you should read more books besides the Bible.

But what I can tell you is I see the work of a Creator all around and in my life. There is no way there isnt a God , who doesnt love me. I have experienced too much awesome works , that i refuse to put off as coincidence. and been through some aweful shit, and been able to have joy through out it all. How does that happen, how do i go through the worst time in my life and be able to be way too happy. I just wish everyone could experience this joy and peace, that only comes from this TRUE GOD.

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." ~ Thomas Gray from Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College

I value idividuality and personality, but i wont sit back and say that believing what ever you want is okay because its not. i love people too much to let them live misrable lives.

What makes you think they are unhappy? I don't believe in God, but I am happy. Actually, I'm happier now then when I did believe in God.

Now what i dont understand is why is it that if i were talking about some alien race or mystic power that control the desitny of the universe no one would question that, why is it that people are more willing to believe that?

Because the Bible is flawed.

this is a good poem of how true christianity should be -http://wilk4.com/misc/whenisay.htm

Nice poem. A great example of humanity which has nothing to do with being Christian. In this respect, all religion can provide comfort. This is a poem about a child seeking a family who can support and love them.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
and cannot ever pay the debt.

^^^ This is a disturbing thought though. This is another way of saying, "I'm a sinner" which I find to be a self-destructive idea. One should be happy with oneself, not in a perpetual state of redeeming oneself for being imperfect.
[/quote]

[Tryptamine Serpentine]

Scientists have never been able to find consciousness nor the mind originating in the brain. In fact, no energy exchanges using the most sensitive measurement devices have ever been measured.

They have found out the firing of neurons do not give rise to consciousness nor the mind as the materialists and reductionists want us to believe.

Yes, a much simpler way to reiterate what I've previously stated is that our minds/bodies are the autonomous subtotal; whirl pools of energy in an ocean of energy.

[growingchild90]

what do you believe in belle_enigma?

[belle_enigma]

what do you believe in belle_enigma?

I try to believe in myself... that I am capable of anything I want, that I have the strength to get through any obstacle, that I have enough reason and heart to know what is right for me. I believe in letting go of man-made concepts such as time and accepting what has, what is, and what will be. I believe in living in the now and letting go of fear, resentment, regret, because every moment I have the power to change, to adapt, to grow. I believe all is ephemeral and to try to cling to anything is futile. I believe I am not perfect and never will be and yet perfect in my imperfection. I believe by accepting my flaws and learning to love everything I am I will be happy and find peace.

[heartsdreamer]

what do you believe in belle_enigma?

I try to believe in myself... that I am capable of anything I want, that I have the strength to get through any obstacle, that I have enough reason and heart to know what is right for me.

I believe in letting go of man-made concepts such as time and accepting what has, what is, and what will be.

I believe in living in the now and letting go of fear, resentment, regret, because every moment I have the power to change, to adapt, to grow. I believe all is ephemeral and to try to cling to anything is futile.

I believe I am not perfect and never will be and yet perfect in my imperfection.

I believe by accepting my flaws and learning to love everything I am I will be happy and find peace.

Perhaps we're soulmates Belle

[growingchild90]

what do you believe in belle_enigma?

I try to believe in myself... that I am capable of anything I want, that I have the strength to get through any obstacle, that I have enough reason and heart to know what is right for me. I believe in letting go of man-made concepts such as time and accepting what has, what is, and what will be. I believe in living in the now and letting go of fear, resentment, regret, because every moment I have the power to change, to adapt, to grow. I believe all is ephemeral and to try to cling to anything is futile. I believe I am not perfect and never will be and yet perfect in my imperfection. I believe by accepting my flaws and learning to love everything I am I will be happy and find peace.

What do you think is going to happen after you die?

[belle_enigma]

what do you believe in belle_enigma?

I try to believe in myself... that I am capable of anything I want, that I have the strength to get through any obstacle, that I have enough reason and heart to know what is right for me. I believe in letting go of man-made concepts such as time and accepting what has, what is, and what will be. I believe in living in the now and letting go of fear, resentment, regret, because every moment I have the power to change, to adapt, to grow. I believe all is ephemeral and to try to cling to anything is futile. I believe I am not perfect and never will be and yet perfect in my imperfection. I believe by accepting my flaws and learning to love everything I am I will be happy and find peace.

What do you think is going to happen after you die?

I've posted what I think about this already.

I believe we can not know for sure. However, I sense there is a higher power, but I don't answer to it and it does not have a constant presence in my life. I live my life regardless of higher power. I have a theory for the afterlife... I think that those souls who are meant to go to heaven and be with God, do, and those souls who don't connect with God get stuck in the reincarnation cycle, but those souls can escape the reincarnation cycle through psycho-spiritual development in which they can die, but continue to live in the astral as a spirit and still continue to advance themselves till they become something of a God themselves. I think some souls are meant to connect with the consciousness of the universe, God or whatever you want to call it and others are meant separate and survive on their own in the universe. I would consider myself the kind of soul that is meant to individuate instead of unify, so my spiritual goal would be to break the reincarnation cycle through enlightenment by means of developing spiritually and psychically. My philosophy is a combination of different quotes and teachings that ring true within me. The Tao is one of the biggest ones for me. Learning to accept everything and know it to be ever changing seems to be the path to inner peace.

[growingchild90]

what do you believe in belle_enigma?

I try to believe in myself... that I am capable of anything I want, that I have the strength to get through any obstacle, that I have enough reason and heart to know what is right for me. I believe in letting go of man-made concepts such as time and accepting what has, what is, and what will be. I believe in living in the now and letting go of fear, resentment, regret, because every moment I have the power to change, to adapt, to grow. I believe all is ephemeral and to try to cling to anything is futile. I believe I am not perfect and never will be and yet perfect in my imperfection. I believe by accepting my flaws and learning to love everything I am I will be happy and find peace.

What do you think is going to happen after you die?

I've posted what I think about this already.

I believe we can not know for sure. However, I sense there is a higher power, but I don't answer to it and it does not have a constant presence in my life. I live my life regardless of higher power. I have a theory for the afterlife... I think that those souls who are meant to go to heaven and be with God, do, and those souls who don't connect with God get stuck in the reincarnation cycle, but those souls can escape the reincarnation cycle through psycho-spiritual development in which they can die, but continue to live in the astral as a spirit and still continue to advance themselves till they become something of a God themselves. I think some souls are meant to connect with the consciousness of the universe, God or whatever you want to call it and others are meant separate and survive on their own in the universe. I would consider myself the kind of soul that is meant to individuate instead of unify, so my spiritual goal would be to break the reincarnation cycle through enlightenment by means of developing spiritually and psychically. My philosophy is a combination of different quotes and teachings that ring true within me. The Tao is one of the biggest ones for me. Learning to accept everything and know it to be ever changing seems to be the path to inner peace.

So what experience do you have with Christianity? Were you raised in the church, or goto a christian school? anything like that?

[shift1085]

hmmmit is good to question. without it, you blindly follow a path. but i think i can clear up some stuff....
no scolarism needed, i think you both are saying the same thing there.
if you had a son/daughter, you would want them to look up to you?
god still loves us but it's remember this: if everyone just went to heaven regardless of anything they did, would anyone try to do anything good? the world would be ten times as worse as it is now because people would start not to care.
ah but it has been offered? every day it is but would you accept it or ignore it? it is choice. if we were forced to accept something would you truly be happy with that?
both statements contradict each other, keep going in a circle. you'd have to accept him, but he only accepts a few? and that circle then repeats. it's a sort of paradox in a way; see it as you the parent with the son or daughter. you want them to love you but you can't make them, save for one daughter. it would appear as if you were paying attention to only her but the others could come and receive the same attention if they ask. to them you are just ignoring them, so they never ask.
"For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves,[/color] being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel,and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered." (SAB, 1 Peter 3)
you saw only a half of that excerpt. giving honour unto the wife, being heirs together. can't just choose some of it lol
heirs together, they are equal, the man is the leader of the group and so stronger vessel but he also has to respect the wife, can;t just go willy nilly and do whatever he wants. also remember about half everything in the bible wasn't meant to be literal, a lot was metaphors and symbolism!

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
and cannot ever pay the debt.

^^^ This is a disturbing thought though. This is another way of saying, "I'm a sinner" which I find to be a self-destructive idea. One should be happy with oneself, not in a perpetual state of redeeming oneself for being imperfect.
[/quote][/quote]
this, i see what they are saying. that though Cristian we are not going to suddenly be perfect, and are recognizing ourselves as sinners as everyone else. not really self-destructive, actually it helps me when i know i am going through what everyone else is, actually it helps me to find happiness and peace. to think of oneself as perfect is to put them above everyone else. i am happy with myself as having the flaws, but i also work to rid of them. i recognize my own faults.

you being happy with/without God is of course your choice, i wouldn't try to force you into any religion just wanted to clarify on some stuff that i saw. may i ask what was your life like believing in God? there are different versions of Christianity. i know some parents who are the "sit in a pew and listen to a pastor babble some phrases and not explain so now one understands what it really is, and then are really strict and creepy like every little mistake will send you to hell" sort of people. and that's not what it's supposed to really be. and now what is your life like? whay dids you change? just wondering.

I believe in the One true God, maker of heaven and Earth. My relationship with Him, he is my best friend. He hears my every plea, every joy, he cares about everything in my life. Everyday im learning something new about Him. My goals are to be more and more like him each day. To have joy, peace, pacients,kindness,selflessness. And to love without ceasing. I will be learning and growing until one day i achieve the ultimate perfection, being with him in heaven. I believe the Bible to be truth, i study it and put it into practice as much as possible. I dont have alot of strong theological points, I know what i know. I dont like to argue about petty issues. Im not judgemental, or close minded becuase i believe that there is only ONE GOD. I do believe that if you dont accept Jesus' death on the cross and you dont enter into a personal relationship with God you will goto Hell. I dont believe there is anything we can do to earn our way into Heaven, i think we just have to understand that God loves us, just simply becuase he does. and all you have to do is accept it. and live it. I find it interesting all the different views on here. I know in my heart and i see it in my life and the lives of others the God is real. and id love to share with you His love!

How do you have a personal relationship with God? It seems contradictory to me that God would hold the qualities of joy, peace, patience, kindness and selflessness and yet not let all his creations into heaven. Shouldn't the love in the heart of a parent overlook it's children's flaws? What do you make of the following passage from the Bible... "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (SAB 1 Corinthians 11:7-9)?

In saying i have a personal relationship with God im not saying that he talks directly to me, tells me the secrets of this world. Im saying that I recognize that i cant do this life on my own, and that i need help. I dont like asking for help from any one, im a very independent person. but i tried doing life on my own, and it didnt work, so i turned to God. I pray , read the Bible, talk to mentors, goto to church to learn more. Its like any other relationship , it requires time and effort. And also God does overlook the flaws of his children, If you are a child of God you are perfect to God. God loves every single one of us, but He made us with the ability to choose. If he forced us to love him, it wouldnt be real love. "Only when you are given the freedom to choose does love become real." But on the other hand we only have the ability love because God first loved us. And for the passage, first off i am no Bible scholar, but when u include the verses around that verse, this is refering to propriety in worship. Talking about men arnt supposed to cover their heads and women are supposed to cover their heads during worship. This verse is Pauls advise applied directly to the cultural situation in Corinth, where unruly women were disrupting the worship services. If you read furthur down in the passage it goes on to say in verse 11 "IN the LOrd ,however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God."

I don't quite see how sending your children to suffer for eternity because they didn't come to accept god in their lives equates to love. You have redefined love for me apparently. "True love" is giving people the choice to do as they will and then punishing them for making the wrong choice. Somehow that makes it "real." Would you rather interpret the passage by listening to a Bible scholar interpret it for you or would rather interpret it for yourself? I agree that if you read further down it decides to contradict itself, also if you read further before... " But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Corinthians 11:3)" And you say women were unruly? It doesn't talk about certain women being unruly only that it is not allowed for women to uncover their heads whereas men should never cover their heads and it explains this law by saying that women are not equal to men, that they were made for men. Anyway, I agree that the later statement is a lot better than the two previous statements. Would you suggest I ignore the two previous passages? Or do you think the Bible gives only good advice?

The interpretation i gave was strictly my own opionion, im not saying it was totally on point, like i said im no Bible scholar. But it is what the passage is talking about, the deeper meanings behind it i cant fully explain to you, and im not going to try because i dont watn to give you the wrong interpretation.

The big issue here is that you shouldn't have to be a Bible scholar to understand your Bible.

God made us to glorify Him, that is our main purpose on earth, whether you believe that or not.

Why does God want you to glorify him?

God is giving you the chance right now, every day your breathing to turn your life to him, to run to him, and he promises to take care of you and love you.

Why can't God love a person regardless of if they're running to him and giving their life to him?

but people deny his love and dont accept it. that is what they choose.

It would be difficult to deny God's love if it has never been offered to me.

God can enter into your heart and change you, but you have to choose to accept him.

Change me to what?

When you turn away from Gods free gift of eternal life, your choosing to goto Hell.

LOL So turning away eternal life means hell? I would have assumed if I don't get eternal life then my life would end... so hell kind of goes out the window too doesn't it?

God dosent desire for any of his children to go. You have to accept him as your father.

Again, this is an example of God's selective love.

As for the man and woman, Man was created in Gods image, God creadted the woman from the rib of a man, the woman was to submit to her husband, and the man was to honor his wife.

So you see the inequality in that right? Not to mention the fictional magic involved.

Many christians argue about the idea of woman being in leadership and such, but no where in the Bible does it say men are better than woman.

Oh really??

"For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel,and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered." (SAB, 1 Peter 3)

Women are the weaker vessel and women are meant to serve their husbands. This is the very definition of sexism.

They might have treated there woman this way in Bible times and certain countrys still do today. but that is not Gods intention.

People in the United States still do today. For some reason the Bible has a lot of God telling women to serve their husbands and obey them and putting us at a lower status than men.

Im not a very brainy person, i suck at science and math, and pretty much all scholastic things. So i cant sit and argue my point with you from an intelegent (which i spelt wrong) point of view.

Maybe you should read more books besides the Bible.

But what I can tell you is I see the work of a Creator all around and in my life. There is no way there isnt a God , who doesnt love me. I have experienced too much awesome works , that i refuse to put off as coincidence. and been through some aweful shit, and been able to have joy through out it all. How does that happen, how do i go through the worst time in my life and be able to be way too happy. I just wish everyone could experience this joy and peace, that only comes from this TRUE GOD.

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." ~ Thomas Gray from Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College

I value idividuality and personality, but i wont sit back and say that believing what ever you want is okay because its not. i love people too much to let them live misrable lives.

What makes you think they are unhappy? I don't believe in God, but I am happy. Actually, I'm happier now then when I did believe in God.

Now what i dont understand is why is it that if i were talking about some alien race or mystic power that control the desitny of the universe no one would question that, why is it that people are more willing to believe that?

Because the Bible is flawed.

this is a good poem of how true christianity should be -http://wilk4.com/misc/whenisay.htm

Nice poem. A great example of humanity which has nothing to do with being Christian. In this respect, all religion can provide comfort. This is a poem about a child seeking a family who can support and love them.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
and cannot ever pay the debt.

^^^ This is a disturbing thought though. This is another way of saying, "I'm a sinner" which I find to be a self-destructive idea. One should be happy with oneself, not in a perpetual state of redeeming oneself for being imperfect.

[/quote]

[Linka]

Shift, you said "this, i see what they are saying. that though Cristian we are not going to suddenly be perfect, and are recognizing ourselves as sinners as everyone else. not really self-destructive, actually it helps me when i know i am going through what everyone else is, actually it helps me to find happiness and peace. to think of oneself as perfect is to put them above everyone else. i am happy with myself as having the flaws, but i also work to rid of them. i recognize my own faults.

you being happy with/without God is of course your choice, i wouldn't try to force you into any religion just wanted to clarify on some stuff that i saw. may i ask what was your life like believing in God? there are different versions of Christianity. i know some parents who are the "sit in a pew and listen to a pastor babble some phrases and not explain so now one understands what it really is, and then are really strict and creepy like every little mistake will send you to hell" sort of people. and that's not what it's supposed to really be. and now what is your life like? whay dids you change? just wondering.


I just wanted to make a couple comments on what you said.. I also am one who left christianity behind years ago.. so when you say christianity helps you to find happiness and peace, you do realize that you dont have the monopoly on that of course? Having been seperate from your christ for many years now, I have felt more peace and happiness than ever, and it increases every year. My abilities to understand, feel compassion, love the other is more genuine than ever, I think perhaps because its source flows from my own soul/spirit, and not from a savior. I dont discount people being able to feel the same from their christ, but I do wonder how you internalize the message, truly change from within, if someone is doing it "for" you.. Im sure there are many who truly do change with your message of Jesus, but many also see it also as a crutch or a fall back plan.. That is what I see most often in your members.. inability to comprehend or understand what they read-sheep following a mans voice instead of creating their own path-inability to see how others might view their single mindedness negatively-great arrogance-lack of empathy.. i could go on and on. For those who stand long enough along the side lines to observe these things, questioning and leaving the church behind is not so hard or frightening to do. When you are caught up in the dance, its hard to see that an abundant spirit life full of unexplicable beauty IS capable outside christianity.

I think it is funny you said there are different versions of christianity.. How can there be so many VERSIONS of the truth?? hehe.. You guys have many versions that differ greatly within your "Truth" and yet you are SO against accepting an outsiders version as truth as well? That makes little sense to me.. See things for what they truly are-THAT is seeing Truth.

I personally think that in the next few hundred years the christ will be more of a memory here on this planet.. The time of pisces is passing and people are changing within.. The Christ still offers a plan to promise people forgiveness, a mansion, and all the trappings and many people fall for it..unable or unwilling to find their own way in the spirit... perhaps there will always be such a thing, but I do hope that we can progress and grow as a species, throw down our crutches and walk upright, reaching for our own answers and experiences. Imagine theres no heaven, it isnt hard to do.. Heaven is a state of mind that could be here and now, if people could only imagine it as so..

[shift1085]

i see your point, linka

yes people can be happy either way i think

i see the crutch as a good thing to get me through the hard times.....just me i guess.
i know i shouldn't ever roam around these posts because i'm one of those who protects my beleifs with a vengance and i lash out at people without really meaning to....i hate when i do that stuff

really i only posted here because of this:
when i get mad my vision jumps forward and at first it was just once or twice but when i was reading this it didn't stop until i literally started writing....is that just me or does that happen to everyone? i dunno, like i said, i probably shouldn't even be on this topic

[Linka]

i see your point, linka

yes people can be happy either way i think

i see the crutch as a good thing to get me through the hard times.....just me i guess.
i know i shouldn't ever roam around these posts because i'm one of those who protects my beleifs with a vengance and i lash out at people without really meaning to....i hate when i do that stuff

really i only posted here because of this:
when i get mad my vision jumps forward and at first it was just once or twice but when i was reading this it didn't stop until i literally started writing....is that just me or does that happen to everyone? i dunno, like i said, i probably shouldn't even be on this topic

Years ago, I guess about 6-7 or more now, I used to frequent this site and get REALLY worked up heheh.. I was a woman with a quest, hell bent to be a wrecking ball to everything a person might hold dear.. lol.. Ive chilled out quite a bit (least I hope so).. I still think pretty much the same way, I just am much more sympathetic to where people are, allowing them to be there and think as they have come to think on their path. You cant force someone to understand something outside their ability to see, and many dont want to step outside the box.. do ya just gotta let it go.. I still speak things as I see them, but there is no anger behind it.. I assure you..

So, post away.. no reason not to really.. I will definately ask you questions about things you say that you might not have been asked before, but I dont do it because Im so angry I cant type straight! lol! Id like to tell you to just relax, dont feel you have to become upset or defensive about your belief system, but I understand why people do.. Instead think slowly, clearly, and really look honestly at what and why you believe what you do.. Instead of focusing on defending it, try to understand it firstly.. I dont think there is ever anything wrong with that..

[Shipbuilder]

I believe in the One true God, maker of heaven and Earth. My relationship with Him, he is my best friend. He hears my every plea, every joy, he cares about everything in my life. Everyday im learning something new about Him. My goals are to be more and more like him each day. To have joy, peace, pacients,kindness,selflessness. And to love without ceasing. I will be learning and growing until one day i achieve the ultimate perfection, being with him in heaven. I believe the Bible to be truth, i study it and put it into practice as much as possible. I dont have alot of strong theological points, I know what i know. I dont like to argue about petty issues. Im not judgemental, or close minded becuase i believe that there is only ONE GOD. I do believe that if you dont accept Jesus' death on the cross and you dont enter into a personal relationship with God you will goto Hell. I dont believe there is anything we can do to earn our way into Heaven, i think we just have to understand that God loves us, just simply becuase he does. and all you have to do is accept it. and live it. I find it interesting all the different views on here. I know in my heart and i see it in my life and the lives of others the God is real. and id love to share with you His love!

How do you have a personal relationship with God? It seems contradictory to me that God would hold the qualities of joy, peace, patience, kindness and selflessness and yet not let all his creations into heaven. Shouldn't the love in the heart of a parent overlook it's children's flaws? What do you make of the following passage from the Bible... "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (SAB 1 Corinthians 11:7-9)?

In saying i have a personal relationship with God im not saying that he talks directly to me, tells me the secrets of this world. Im saying that I recognize that i cant do this life on my own, and that i need help. I dont like asking for help from any one, im a very independent person. but i tried doing life on my own, and it didnt work, so i turned to God. I pray , read the Bible, talk to mentors, goto to church to learn more. Its like any other relationship , it requires time and effort. And also God does overlook the flaws of his children, If you are a child of God you are perfect to God. God loves every single one of us, but He made us with the ability to choose. If he forced us to love him, it wouldnt be real love. "Only when you are given the freedom to choose does love become real." But on the other hand we only have the ability love because God first loved us. And for the passage, first off i am no Bible scholar, but when u include the verses around that verse, this is refering to propriety in worship. Talking about men arnt supposed to cover their heads and women are supposed to cover their heads during worship. This verse is Pauls advise applied directly to the cultural situation in Corinth, where unruly women were disrupting the worship services. If you read furthur down in the passage it goes on to say in verse 11 "IN the LOrd ,however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God."

I don't quite see how sending your children to suffer for eternity because they didn't come to accept god in their lives equates to love. You have redefined love for me apparently. "True love" is giving people the choice to do as they will and then punishing them for making the wrong choice. Somehow that makes it "real." Would you rather interpret the passage by listening to a Bible scholar interpret it for you or would rather interpret it for yourself? I agree that if you read further down it decides to contradict itself, also if you read further before... " But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Corinthians 11:3)" And you say women were unruly? It doesn't talk about certain women being unruly only that it is not allowed for women to uncover their heads whereas men should never cover their heads and it explains this law by saying that women are not equal to men, that they were made for men. Anyway, I agree that the later statement is a lot better than the two previous statements. Would you suggest I ignore the two previous passages? Or do you think the Bible gives only good advice?

The interpretation i gave was strictly my own opionion, im not saying it was totally on point, like i said im no Bible scholar. But it is what the passage is talking about, the deeper meanings behind it i cant fully explain to you, and im not going to try because i dont watn to give you the wrong interpretation. God made us to glorify Him, that is our main purpose on earth, whether you believe that or not. God is giving you the chance right now, every day your breathing to turn your life to him, to run to him, and he promises to take care of you and love you. but people deny his love and dont accept it. that is what they choose. God can enter into your heart and change you, but you have to choose to accept him. When you turn away from Gods free gift of eternal life, your choosing to goto Hell. God dosent desire for any of his children to go. You have to accept him as your father. As for the man and woman, Man was created in Gods image, God creadted the woman from the rib of a man, the woman was to submit to her husband, and the man was to honor his wife. Many christians argue about the idea of woman being in leadership and such, but no where in the Bible does it say men are better than woman. They might have treated there woman this way in Bible times and certain countrys still do today. but that is not Gods intention. Im not a very brainy person, i suck at science and math, and pretty much all scholastic things. So i cant sit and argue my point with you from an intelegent (which i spelt wrong) point of view. But what I can tell you is I see the work of a Creator all around and in my life. There is no way there isnt a God , who doesnt love me. I have experienced too much awesome works , that i refuse to put off as coincidence. and been through some aweful shit, and been able to have joy through out it all. How does that happen, how do i go through the worst time in my life and be able to be way too happy. I just wish everyone could experience this joy and peace, that only comes from this TRUE GOD. I value idividuality and personality, but i wont sit back and say that believing what ever you want is okay because its not. i love people too much to let them live misrable lives. Now what i dont understand is why is it that if i were talking about some alien race or mystic power that control the desitny of the universe no one would question that, why is it that people are more willing to believe that?

[/quote]


"" it decides to contradict itself""
it contradicts itself because it it not the true word of God. The true word of God does not contradict itself.
Matthew-John-Revelation

""If you are a child of God you are perfect to God""
anyone who abides in a lie, or half truths, will be spewed out of the Lords mouth.

""Jesus' death on the cross ""
Jesus did not die on a "cross", he died on a "starous", which is a "upright pale or stake"
the "cross" symbolism comes from egyptian "tau" and was adopted into "christianity" by Constantine...
are you "Weeping for Tammuz?"

""goto to church to learn more""
why should i go to a church to lean more?? is Elohim only in a building??
the very word "church" is Eklesia, which means "called out ones".....simple and to the point

You claim to love Y'shua Ha Mesciac (Jesus Christ), but i see no testimony of Jesus Christ on this page...
only pauline doctrine

[shift1085]

yeah i agree with that completely!

i see your point, linka

yes people can be happy either way i think

i see the crutch as a good thing to get me through the hard times.....just me i guess.
i know i shouldn't ever roam around these posts because i'm one of those who protects my beleifs with a vengance and i lash out at people without really meaning to....i hate when i do that stuff

really i only posted here because of this:
when i get mad my vision jumps forward and at first it was just once or twice but when i was reading this it didn't stop until i literally started writing....is that just me or does that happen to everyone? i dunno, like i said, i probably shouldn't even be on this topic

Years ago, I guess about 6-7 or more now, I used to frequent this site and get REALLY worked up heheh.. I was a woman with a quest, hell bent to be a wrecking ball to everything a person might hold dear.. lol.. Ive chilled out quite a bit (least I hope so).. I still think pretty much the same way, I just am much more sympathetic to where people are, allowing them to be there and think as they have come to think on their path. You cant force someone to understand something outside their ability to see, and many dont want to step outside the box.. do ya just gotta let it go.. I still speak things as I see them, but there is no anger behind it.. I assure you..

So, post away.. no reason not to really.. I will definately ask you questions about things you say that you might not have been asked before, but I dont do it because Im so angry I cant type straight! lol! Id like to tell you to just relax, dont feel you have to become upset or defensive about your belief system, but I understand why people do.. Instead think slowly, clearly, and really look honestly at what and why you believe what you do.. Instead of focusing on defending it, try to understand it firstly.. I dont think there is ever anything wrong with that..

[belle_enigma]

what do you believe in belle_enigma?

I try to believe in myself... that I am capable of anything I want, that I have the strength to get through any obstacle, that I have enough reason and heart to know what is right for me. I believe in letting go of man-made concepts such as time and accepting what has, what is, and what will be. I believe in living in the now and letting go of fear, resentment, regret, because every moment I have the power to change, to adapt, to grow. I believe all is ephemeral and to try to cling to anything is futile. I believe I am not perfect and never will be and yet perfect in my imperfection. I believe by accepting my flaws and learning to love everything I am I will be happy and find peace.

What do you think is going to happen after you die?

I've posted what I think about this already.

I believe we can not know for sure. However, I sense there is a higher power, but I don't answer to it and it does not have a constant presence in my life. I live my life regardless of higher power. I have a theory for the afterlife... I think that those souls who are meant to go to heaven and be with God, do, and those souls who don't connect with God get stuck in the reincarnation cycle, but those souls can escape the reincarnation cycle through psycho-spiritual development in which they can die, but continue to live in the astral as a spirit and still continue to advance themselves till they become something of a God themselves. I think some souls are meant to connect with the consciousness of the universe, God or whatever you want to call it and others are meant separate and survive on their own in the universe. I would consider myself the kind of soul that is meant to individuate instead of unify, so my spiritual goal would be to break the reincarnation cycle through enlightenment by means of developing spiritually and psychically. My philosophy is a combination of different quotes and teachings that ring true within me. The Tao is one of the biggest ones for me. Learning to accept everything and know it to be ever changing seems to be the path to inner peace.

So what experience do you have with Christianity? Were you raised in the church, or goto a christian school? anything like that?

My experience with Christianity is being raised by parents who both grew up in Catholic homes and being sent to Christian and later Catholic private schools up until my high school years. Before, high school I went to the chapel almost every day because it was part of my schooling. We also had Bible study/religion class at my school.

[belle_enigma]

:arrow: if you had a son/daughter, you would want them to look up to you?

Yeah look up to me, not worship and fear me. If I was a parent I wouldn't judge, sacrifice, or disown my children whatever the circumstance. I would also give them affection instead of neglecting them. I would help them whenever they asked for it not constantly test their ability to survive life.

:arrow: god still loves us but it's remember this: if everyone just went to heaven regardless of anything they did, would anyone try to do anything good? the world would be ten times as worse as it is now because people would start not to care.

Really? Because I'm not scared of not going to heaven I will therefore not want to do anything good? Really??

:arrow: ah but it has been offered? every day it is but would you accept it or ignore it? it is choice. if we were forced to accept something would you truly be happy with that?

You're asking me if it's been offered? I just said it hasn't unless you have some metaphorical idea about how it has. Would you care to explain? No I do not sense God's love whatsoever. There can be no choice if the choice doesn't exist in the first place. Bingo! You hit it right on the nail. I would not be happy with something I was forced to accept. And yet... you still don't understand do you?

:arrow: both statements contradict each other, keep going in a circle. you'd have to accept him, but he only accepts a few? and that circle then repeats. it's a sort of paradox in a way; see it as you the parent with the son or daughter. you want them to love you but you can't make them, save for one daughter. it would appear as if you were paying attention to only her but the others could come and receive the same attention if they ask. to them you are just ignoring them, so they never ask.

This makes absolutely no sense. You seriously feel good about this kind of relationship? Do you really feel like it's natural and healthy that your mother or father love your brother or sister more than you simply because you never asked for their love?

"For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves,[/color] being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel,and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered." (SAB, 1 Peter 3)

:arrow: you saw only a half of that excerpt. giving honour unto the wife, being heirs together. can't just choose some of it lol
heirs together, they are equal, the man is the leader of the group and so stronger vessel but he also has to respect the wife, can;t just go willy nilly and do whatever he wants. also remember about half everything in the bible wasn't meant to be literal, a lot was metaphors and symbolism!

Yeah I know... So I guess you know which half is meant to be literal and which half is metaphorical and symbolic? Let me guess... all the bad stuff is metaphorical or symbolic... can't be what we would assume it means because the Bible can't have any bad things right?

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
and cannot ever pay the debt.

^^^ This is a disturbing thought though. This is another way of saying, "I'm a sinner" which I find to be a self-destructive idea. One should be happy with oneself, not in a perpetual state of redeeming oneself for being imperfect.
[/quote][/quote]

this, i see what they are saying. that though Cristian we are not going to suddenly be perfect, and are recognizing ourselves as sinners as everyone else. not really self-destructive, actually it helps me when i know i am going through what everyone else is, actually it helps me to find happiness and peace. to think of oneself as perfect is to put them above everyone else. i am happy with myself as having the flaws, but i also work to rid of them. i recognize my own faults.

You don't have to be a Christian to be able to recognize your faults. It's the "can't ever pay the debt" that seems crippling to me. Whatever you do you have failed in some way. Why can't you just learn from your mistakes instead of call it sin, failure, etc...? Why does a fault or flaw have to be so horrible in the first place? Faults make you human.

you being happy with/without God is of course your choice, i wouldn't try to force you into any religion just wanted to clarify on some stuff that i saw. may i ask what was your life like believing in God? there are different versions of Christianity. i know some parents who are the "sit in a pew and listen to a pastor babble some phrases and not explain so now one understands what it really is, and then are really strict and creepy like every little mistake will send you to hell" sort of people. and that's not what it's supposed to really be. and now what is your life like? whay dids you change? just wondering.

When I believed in God I was scared. I was scared of people, of things, of places... I was scared of the evil that lurked in the unknown. I was scared of making mistakes, of disobeying, of asking too many questions. I wanted to learn, to grow, to have fun, but the fear of God, of not going to heaven, of being possessed by the demons/devil/evil often thwarted these natural feelings. You feel something makes you happy, but are told it is wrong. Christianity denied me life. It kept me ignorant, safe, naive, and innocent. I was happy because I didn't know any better. Who knows if it was the friendship of a pagan or my insatiable curiosity I had about the occult that made me take that first step to educating myself to realizing there was more out there than just Christianity and then I started to truly discover myself instead of fitting into the mold everyone else expected of me. I learned how to put myself in other people's shoes and see things from different perspectives. My parents weren't really there to enforce Christianity... which is a good thing. But they didn't show me any other way either. I discovered that on my own. When I was a little girl, I was more Christian than my parents. I wanted to pray and do what was "right" which I got from the schools I went to. I enjoyed listening to sermons and reading the Bible. So no they weren't strict or creepy, but I was reminded that my mistakes would not go unnoticed by God and that most of the things I enjoyed were apparently things that would get me possessed by the devil. LOL If I had to describe my life... I would say it's a roller coaster. I changed because I wasn't happy, not completely. I had too many unanswered questions, too many conflicts within myself, and I wanted to know what else was out there. Once you gain knowledge... you can't really go back.

[Linka]

I always thought it strange that Adam and Eve would be punished for partaking of a tree of knowledge.. Kinda says it all eh? I understand exactly where you are coming from and probably goin Belle..