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Atheistic christians?

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Atheistic christians?

Postby Burning Memes » Thu May 05, 2016 5:30 pm

I am myself a materialistic atheist, but I'm very interested in religion overall, and always enjoy discussing everything about it, and the other day, I stumbled upon something that I hadn't actually heard about earlier, and it was a field of christianity that was called Atheistic Christianity, or something similar. As I understood it, atheistic christians believe in the bible but in a metaphorical way, as to them, "God" is more of a reference to human morality. I want to read a little more about it, but I think the best way to actually get to know the subject is to talk about someone who identifies as an atheistic christian or at least have a connection to it. What do you guys (christians, atheists, muslims, whatever you are) think about the idea of atheistic christianity?
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Scorpio1 » Thu May 05, 2016 7:17 pm

Pretty stupid .... :)What next, Christian satanism?
Christ is a real being, and you could not know Christ and deny God. Atheism is actually an illness, as anyone with a healthy connection between body, soul body and spiritual 'I' senses their connection with the Divine; when that isn't present, it means something is amiss.
God is not a dude with a white beard, but nor is God some abstract force or principle.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby The Eagle » Sat May 07, 2016 2:30 pm

Scorpio1 wrote:Pretty stupid .... :)What next, Christian satanism?
Christ is a real being, and you could not know Christ and deny God. Atheism is actually an illness, as anyone with a healthy connection between body, soul body and spiritual 'I' senses their connection with the Divine; when that isn't present, it means something is amiss.
God is not a dude with a white beard, but nor is God some abstract force or principle.


I appreciate a clinical viewpoint but Christianity itself can be viewed as a mixture of roman pagan and Judaism ideas.

The humanist teachings of Jesus have to potential to reach people outside the hard edges of religion as martin Luther king, Gandhi etc have.

Doesn't have to be mystical or magical to make a difference.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Scorpio1 » Sat May 07, 2016 4:49 pm

Christ didn't come to found a religion. He has nothing to do with religion, it's man made. And most churchgoers who call themselves 'Christians' are not, they are still living for themselves!
I never even mentioned religion.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Batman » Sun May 08, 2016 1:52 am

:dj: sounds like a catch 22 as - ... there are 33,000+ "Christian denominations" and WAT

Maybe it's EAGLE's Baby wanting to be baptized and have a soul type of religion/ cult?
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby The Eagle » Sun May 08, 2016 6:37 am

Scorpio1 wrote:Christ didn't come to found a religion. He has nothing to do with religion, it's man made. And most churchgoers who call themselves 'Christians' are not, they are still living for themselves!
I never even mentioned religion.


Tricky viewpoint. I agree Jesus didn't have the intention to set up a new religion - but nothing to do with religion? He was Jewish and followed the Jewish religion. 90% of Jesus teachings is Judaism, probably taught to him by a group called the Essen's.

Christianity was largely influenced by Paul - who never met jesus while jesus was alive, and jesus disciples called him a "windbag" translated to modern day speak - "talked a load of shite".
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby The Cat Whisperer » Sun May 08, 2016 9:54 am

Scorpio1 wrote:Pretty stupid .... :)What next, Christian satanism?
Christ is a real being, and you could not know Christ and deny God. Atheism is actually an illness, as anyone with a healthy connection between body, soul body and spiritual 'I' senses their connection with the Divine; when that isn't present, it means something is amiss.
God is not a dude with a white beard, but nor is God some abstract force or principle.

Logic has taken a serious hit here. :?
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Scorpio1 » Tue May 10, 2016 5:40 pm

I am very logical. Read it carefully. :)
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Gus Who » Thu May 12, 2016 7:35 pm

Okay I look it up... and they don't believe he rose from the dying on the cross...
Last edited by Gus Who on Fri May 13, 2016 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby VenusInChains » Fri May 13, 2016 4:41 am

I've heard about atheistic Christians before, but have never met one.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Naba-Daba-Doo! » Sun May 22, 2016 12:49 pm

Before being called Christians... they were followers of the "WAY"
an atheist is about belief or un-belief
if that were a Christian... something inside has changed... possibly doubt or un-belief
they have somehow lost hope to un-do something that used to be there
like childlike faith... a loss of simple belief or more militant adamant rejection
you could say they ... lost their "WAY"

what a pity... they were so close to the truth
and for some false reasoning they continue to search in vain for something of more value

as Jesus said... "I am the WAY, he Truth and the Life/Light"
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby DarkAxel » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:46 pm

A belief in Christ's Divinity is not required for one to agree with Jesus's teachings on how to behave.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby The Eagle » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:14 pm

So the question is which belief is more important - a belief in Jesus' divinity (which one could argue didn't come from Jesus....) or following what Jesus taught...........

As evident on this site by certain people - one belief doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with the other.....
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Scorpio1 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:30 pm

But why all this stuff about "belief"?? I hold no beliefs at all, I'd describe myself as a spiritual scientist; I test things and try to find out what is true and what is false.
Beliefs and opinions are valueless, IMHO. They come from the mind, and are frequently wrong. The minute you have a 'belief', your perception is skewed, as you will filter everything to match your 'belief.'
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby The Eagle » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:46 pm

Scorpio1 wrote:But why all this stuff about "belief"?? I hold no beliefs at all, I'd describe myself as a spiritual scientist; I test things and try to find out what is true and what is false.
Beliefs and opinions are valueless, IMHO. They come from the mind, and are frequently wrong. The minute you have a 'belief', your perception is skewed, as you will filter everything to match your 'belief.'


I would say all we have is beliefs - we as humans don't deal with truth, the closest we can get is a believing something is true.

Science only leads belief - science in its the very nature doesn't deal with truth - it's called "the principle of uncertainty"

Let me explain how science leads belief - If you test something 1000 times and get the same result - based on that, you form a belief that testing will always produce the same result. Therefore you believe test 1001 will produce the same result - it doesn't mean it will. That's not to say you should believe it will be different, it's just identifying where belief comes in.

But I get what you are saying - plucking a belief out of thin air and making observations fit isn't the most logical approach.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Scorpio1 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:27 pm

Ah, but that's what I mean by no belief. Yes, we can find truths, we aren't limited to some 'belief.' If I say that water boils at x temperature, or that there is a law of gravity which operates in a certain way, then that is not 'my belief': others performing the same experiments will get the same results.
But materialistic science is limited and often crass, because it knows nothing of the invisible worlds behind this reality. I have no time for that kind of 'science'.

If I get the same result 1000 times, then no, I don't have a 'belief' that I will observe the same result the 1001th time. Others might hold that belief, but I always keep an open mind to the fact that things can change. Generally, though, a spiritual law will hold good; you can rely on it, and the rare exceptions only prove the rule. So yes, case # 1001 is likely to give the same result. I can tell you that from practice: my 'belief or disbelief' have no relevance.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby The Eagle » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:33 pm

Scorpio1 wrote:Ah, but that's what I mean by no belief. Yes, we can find truths, we aren't limited to some 'belief.' If I say that water boils at x temperature, or that there is a law of gravity which operates in a certain way, then that is not 'my belief': others performing the same experiments will get the same results.
But materialistic science is limited and often crass, because it knows nothing of the invisible worlds behind this reality. I have no time for that kind of 'science'.

If I get the same result 1000 times, then no, I don't have a 'belief' that I will observe the same result the 1001th time. Others might hold that belief, but I always keep an open mind to the fact that things can change. Generally, though, a spiritual law will hold good; you can rely on it, and the rare exceptions only prove the rule. So yes, case # 1001 is likely to give the same result. I can tell you that from practice: my 'belief or disbelief' have no relevance.


Lol so how do you prove the laws of water boils at x temp and gravity - without involving a belief system like the test example given?

How do you think they became "laws" in the first place? - someone tested them, a constant found in those tests and belief comes that if you test them again you will get the same result......

See the term you used "yes it's likely to give the same result" - to say its likely is a belief that it's likely, based on the evidence. Think about how you can claim if something is likely or not without using belief.

You can't say there are laws but I keep an open mind - that's not accepting laws. That's saying I currently believe this but if it proves to be wrong I'll change my belief. That's what science is - "standing on the shoulders" and all that - science never claims truth, science never claims belief - it's human observation of nature. The human element of science means it's fallable and therefore doesn't deal with truth - that's what the principle of uncertainty is about.

There really isn't any way around it. belief isn't a dirty word or automatically suggests unicorns or fairies - a belief can be logical based on empirically driven evidence. It's still a belief - how beliefs should be structured should is the arguing point.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Scorpio1 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:24 am

Oh, I see, you're using 'belief' in the way that people do who say 'sugar is a drug, heroin is a drug .....'
I meant belief in the 'I have not proved it, yet I "believe" it' sense. Eg, religious beliefs. So we are not on the same page here.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Batman » Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:11 am

A belief and faith go hand in hand ... as a scientific truth is /should be still considered an opinion truth. So Scorp your sight has no faith... as Christian is considered a faith, and therefore a truth
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby The Eagle » Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:02 am

Scorpio1 wrote:Oh, I see, you're using 'belief' in the way that people do who say 'sugar is a drug, heroin is a drug .....'
I meant belief in the 'I have not proved it, yet I "believe" it' sense. Eg, religious beliefs. So we are not on the same page here.


Lol in that regard your stance could be described as saying alcohol is not a drug - it's a drink.

Proof relies on belief of evidence, but wider than that it largely relies on secondary evidence. For instance, have you personally proved the world is spherical? Or do you just accept it as fact - by believing someone else has - "scientifically"? Sure you can understand the theory of why it's spherical - but is that proof? Is that any more proof of a theist understanding the theory of how a god fits in to the explanation?

Don't get me wrong I don't believe in an omnipotent god, and favour logic as a way to guide belief in terms of truth, yet still recognise it's belief - which gives it space to grow and advance. I think you said earlier, those that claim truths and laws - try to fit the world/universe into what is already written - but that goes for scientific and religious truths and laws.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby DarkAxel » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:01 am

The Eagle wrote:So the question is which belief is more important - a belief in Jesus' divinity (which one could argue didn't come from Jesus....) or following what Jesus taught...........

As evident on this site by certain people - one belief doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with the other.....


From a purely scientific perspective, behavior is more important because it can be quantified. From a Biblical perspective both are linked: a person's behavior toward others is an indicator of their belief in Christ: "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me." - John 14:22-24 (emphasis mine).
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Scorpio1 » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:23 am

Yes, if you see Jesus as Divine, then you *would* follow the advice, wouldn't you? If you didn't believe him, then why bother? Jesus said he was the Son of God. If he wasn't, then he was either deranged/deluded, or a liar. So why would anyone want to follow a deluded person or a liar? Think about it. :)
So people who say, 'Yes, Jesus was a good teacher', are missing the point. Either Jesus Christ was God made human, or not. If 'not', then he was lying. There isn't some sort of vague middle ground.

The Bible also lists the signs that follow all genuine Christians: they can lay hands on people and heal them, they can cast out demons, etc.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby The Eagle » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:27 pm

DarkAxel wrote:
The Eagle wrote:So the question is which belief is more important - a belief in Jesus' divinity (which one could argue didn't come from Jesus....) or following what Jesus taught...........

As evident on this site by certain people - one belief doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with the other.....


From a purely scientific perspective, behavior is more important because it can be quantified. From a Biblical perspective both are linked: a person's behavior toward others is an indicator of their belief in Christ: "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me." - John 14:22-24 (emphasis mine).


Biblical perspective is tricky to say - you can argue Jesus never said he was divine, so that belief has come from someone that wasn't Jesus.

You can also say Jesus' teachings were nothing new at the time about being a good person - a good human being. So that poses the question - Can someone be described as a good human being - without knowing Jesus teachings? The answer is obviously yes, - so is a belief in Jesus' divinity more important than being a good human being? I have to say no.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby The Eagle » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:49 pm

Scorpio1 wrote:Yes, if you see Jesus as Divine, then you *would* follow the advice, wouldn't you? If you didn't believe him, then why bother? Jesus said he was the Son of God. If he wasn't, then he was either deranged/deluded, or a liar. So why would anyone want to follow a deluded person or a liar? Think about it. :)
So people who say, 'Yes, Jesus was a good teacher', are missing the point. Either Jesus Christ was God made human, or not. If 'not', then he was lying. There isn't some sort of vague middle ground.

The Bible also lists the signs that follow all genuine Christians: they can lay hands on people and heal them, they can cast out demons, etc.


You could argue that all humans are "sons of god" - in fact all Jewish people especially are described as beings "sons of god" - so it again goes down to interpretation.

Van Gogh was a genius painter, what he created is admired all around the world - mad as a pair of trousers though, - does that make what he created any less to be admired?

We also have the point that Jesus might not have claimed to be god, he was after all Jewish - the being called god came much later, probably by roman pagan influence on the religion - the ancients did like a demi-god hero.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby DarkAxel » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:22 am

The Eagle wrote:
Biblical perspective is tricky to say - you can argue Jesus never said he was divine, so that belief has come from someone that wasn't Jesus.



Here's the problem, for one to accept your conclusion, one accept your initial argument. Jesus did make statements that can be interpreted as Him saying He was Divine. He does say in John 14 that if you have seen Him you have seen the Father. A lot of people have differing interpretations of the Bible. In some viewpoints, Christ was simply another prophet that has been mythologized into the "Son of God" over the generations. To those people, the message is more important than the messenger. Other viewpoints hold that He was God incarnate, and more important than the message. Other viewpoints fall somewhere between those extremes. (this of course, only covers those who don't accept the argument that the Bible is a complete work of fiction).

I guess a better response to your initial question about the importance of belief vs behavior would be to ask, "In what regard"? The end-goal of Christianity is a better afterlife, and that access requires belief. Since good works are supposed to follow belief (Christians aren't supposed to act like arrogant dicks), one of the side effects is people who aren't dicks, which makes for a better current life. Simply put, if the better afterlife of the Bible is the stated goal, then belief is a requirement. If good behavior in this life is the stated goal, then a belief in Divinity is not required and can sometimes be a hindrance because of human nature. Because of that last bit, I really can understand the criticism leveled against religious people.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Gus Who » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:29 pm

DarkAxel wrote:
The Eagle wrote:
Biblical perspective is tricky to say - you can argue Jesus never said he was divine, so that belief has come from someone that wasn't Jesus.



Here's the problem, for one to accept your conclusion, one accept your initial argument. Jesus did make statements that can be interpreted as Him saying He was Divine. He does say in John 14 that if you have seen Him you have seen the Father. A lot of people have differing interpretations of the Bible. In some viewpoints, Christ was simply another prophet that has been mythologized into the "Son of God" over the generations. To those people, the message is more important than the messenger. Other viewpoints hold that He was God incarnate, and more important than the message. Other viewpoints fall somewhere between those extremes. (this of course, only covers those who don't accept the argument that the Bible is a complete work of fiction).

I guess a better response to your initial question about the importance of belief vs behavior would be to ask, "In what regard"? The end-goal of Christianity is a better afterlife, and that access requires belief. Since good works are supposed to follow belief (Christians aren't supposed to act like arrogant dicks), one of the side effects is people who aren't dicks, which makes for a better current life. Simply put, if the better afterlife of the Bible is the stated goal, then belief is a requirement. If good behavior in this life is the stated goal, then a belief in Divinity is not required and can sometimes be a hindrance because of human nature. Because of that last bit, I really can understand the criticism leveled against religious people.


I am pretty sure the end goal was to get into the kingdom (spiritually speaking... as souls go... :creeping: )
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby The Eagle » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:10 pm

DarkAxel wrote:
The Eagle wrote:
Biblical perspective is tricky to say - you can argue Jesus never said he was divine, so that belief has come from someone that wasn't Jesus.



Here's the problem, for one to accept your conclusion, one accept your initial argument. Jesus did make statements that can be interpreted as Him saying He was Divine. He does say in John 14 that if you have seen Him you have seen the Father. A lot of people have differing interpretations of the Bible. In some viewpoints, Christ was simply another prophet that has been mythologized into the "Son of God" over the generations. To those people, the message is more important than the messenger. Other viewpoints hold that He was God incarnate, and more important than the message. Other viewpoints fall somewhere between those extremes. (this of course, only covers those who don't accept the argument that the Bible is a complete work of fiction).

I guess a better response to your initial question about the importance of belief vs behavior would be to ask, "In what regard"? The end-goal of Christianity is a better afterlife, and that access requires belief. Since good works are supposed to follow belief (Christians aren't supposed to act like arrogant dicks), one of the side effects is people who aren't dicks, which makes for a better current life. Simply put, if the better afterlife of the Bible is the stated goal, then belief is a requirement. If good behavior in this life is the stated goal, then a belief in Divinity is not required and can sometimes be a hindrance because of human nature. Because of that last bit, I really can understand the criticism leveled against religious people.


Jesus saying he was divine - there's plenty of quotes where it rules it out, again depending on interpretation. Even the word divine can still exclude actually being god.

That's a very good point about the goal - and let's point out being a Christian might exclude you from a better afterlife. Lol

We must remember Christianity isn't just Jesus' teachings.
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Gus Who » Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:16 pm

The Eagle wrote:
Jesus saying he was divine - there's plenty of quotes where it rules it out, again depending on interpretation. Even the word divine can still exclude actually being god.

That's a very good point about the goal - and let's point out being a Christian might exclude you from a better afterlife. Lol

We must remember Christianity isn't just Jesus' teachings.

Yes, Christians can be atheistic Christians ... :creeping:

The point being, these Christian must recognize Jesus even if there Atheistic... Jesus is going to say to them ... That he does not know their Brand of Christianty ... and therefore say no playing ball...
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby The Eagle » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:16 am

Rather than inventing words that jesus might or might not say lets just quote something he did:

In my fathers house there are many rooms.........
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Scorpio1 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:08 pm

1 Timothy 6: 3 - 5
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Gus Who » Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:47 am

Hmm... I take Wii are painting what kind of view these Athestic Christian get :computer:

I really don't know any of these Christians
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Atheistic christians

Postby delmetmke » Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:03 am

In response to the two Christians : no I cannot say that God does not exist but nor would I either for it is only gnostic atheists who think so. I am
an agnostic atheist and so have to allow for the possibility that God Christian or non Christian could exist even if only infinitesimally so. More
specifically I am also an apatheist and so it matters not to me whether a metaphysical being exists or not for I cannot prove or disprove it either
way. And furthermore my atheism is not even the most important aspect of my worldview my nihilism and egalitarianism are more important
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby Lady Daffodil » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:35 am

Scorpio1 wrote:Pretty stupid .... :)What next, Christian satanism?
Christ is a real being, and you could not know Christ and deny God. Atheism is actually an illness, as anyone with a healthy connection between body, soul body and spiritual 'I' senses their connection with the Divine; when that isn't present, it means something is amiss.
God is not a dude with a white beard, but nor is God some abstract force or principle.


Right on, Scorpio1! :goldblob: I couldn't have said it better myself. There is absolutely no such thing as an atheist Christian. Christians believe in God, atheists don't. You can't believe and not believe at the same time, it's impossible. I may get a lot of people mad at me, but I don't care. Jesus is the Son of God and He is the only way to get to Heaven. God sent his only Son to die on the cross for us, and all we have to do is believe and accept this free gift of salvation. This isn't just pretty words, it's the truth. I care more about what God thinks of me than what mere humans think of me, and I want to please Him, and I want to turn others towards Jesus! God bless all who read this, and I pray that you will give Jesus a chance! :heartpump:
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby hank32 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:11 am

Good to know that you approach this, I like that!
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Re: Atheistic christians?

Postby yournamehere » Sat May 13, 2017 7:23 am

Sounds to me like yet another way to take someone elses ideas, and use them for their own. A very dangerous thing indeed.
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