Rant and Rave Think Tank 2

by **BLUE** on Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:43 am

I agree. There are things I don't want to know.

Then there are things I don't think I should know. Like in the case of 911. All I kept hearing were the reporters asking Where the president was. I don't need to know. All I needed to know is that he was alive and safe, to handle things as best as possible. I don't think some people understand that if everyone knows, that means the people who are bombing us do too. I hate when they throw out the "right to know" blindly and only to increase their success. Not thinking of all the people it could harm if we did know.

by **Guardian7347** on Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:02 pm

Reporters are very fond of throwing out that "we have a right to know" comment without knowing what we actually have a right to know. Not only in matters of security, but there are some necessary actions of the govt that people don't want to know about. Making deals with people who aren't necessarily our friends and such.

by **BLUE** on Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:23 pm

If people knew that we made deals with the enemy, or the amount of it, would probably send many people into tizzy.

by **JeremyM** on Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:48 pm

Dorn wrote:
JeremyM wrote:This was the group that claimed to take out Facebook on a date in November, didn't they, and guess what- nothing happened. Most of what they say is false threats and posturing and playing into fears others have regarding hacking.
Don't be gleeful. Anonymous succeeded in hacking STRATFOR and the Israeli stock exchange, publishing personal credit card info online, making it open to looters. I have a friend who had his bank account emptied by these "activists."

I wouldn't go as far as to say I was being gleeful in my post. I was giving my opinion on the fact that most of that is hyped and to create fear.

What logic was given for hacking STRATFOR and the Israleli stock exchange? Don't they claim to protect the little guy? I don't follow the antics of internet loons that closely.

by **KRSTYSTLCLR** on Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:11 pm

I think they are for the little guy and that's why they targeted the stock exchange in Israel. All it takes is 1 to get out of line and we have another few years like the last 2 or 3. That's my worry anyway. I'm pissed at how this country has gone back to the days of old England catering to the Church and having a few wealthy personal Empires. I wont go so far to say that I would join the OWS protests and I certainly am somewhat fearful of a major interruption in our way of life i.e. more disruption of what little stability we have. But I do understand some of the anger the protesters feel. Just my :2cents:

by **Guardian7347** on Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:43 am

I don't feel that we cater to the church. There are times when I feel we go too far in our desire to ensure nothing regarding God is permitted anywhere outside of a church. Do you realize there is NO constitutional separation of church and state? Completely made up.

by **KRSTYSTLCLR** on Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:54 pm

Hey Guardian,

What I meant by the Church is how in old England, the Church had enormous power and influence over the affairs of the country. Just as today, huge corporations have that influence. I know the words "Separation of Church and State" are not actually in The Constitution. However many cases from lower courts all the way to the Supreme Court have sought to interpret that particular part of the Constitution. Its really interesting to read and research. Go back to the founders and see their arguments and reasoning to include it in The Constitution. Even they argued how to word such a principal, and in the end left it to interpretation.

by **Dorn** on Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:07 pm

JeremyM wrote:What logic was given for hacking STRATFOR and the Israleli stock exchange?

Nothing official, but many of STRATFOR's subscribers are members of our armed forces, police units, justice departments, and so on. By hacking the site they could snatch 2.7 million personal e-mails and over 50,000 credit card numbers. The Israeli stock exchange turned out to be hacked by an anti-Semitic Saudi national, not Anonymous.

Don't they claim to protect the little guy?

We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us--always.

If you can get anything out of that, be my guest.

by **SharA2** on Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:40 pm

I do not know that much about the group Anonymous, KRSTY-- outside of the fact they are internet attention whores on a larger scale wrecking havoc where they see fit. I could spend some time reading up about the group and get myself more informed and come back into this discussion again. I did recall the act of bringing down Facebook that was previously mentioned in this thread, but they chose not to follow through on that act for some reasons maybe the creator of Facebook had a dialogue with them.

by **KRSTYSTLCLR** on Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:17 pm

That's O.K. Shara. I'm bored with it already. Do you have anymore of those sweet stories to post?

by **SharA2** on Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:09 am

Not really a story like SHMILY but I nice prayer/poem. This was sent to me after my father died and I liked it so much I printed it out. It makes you tear up too, especially if you recently lost someone you loved. :hugs:

I know this is not an intellectual discussion topic but it is meaningful.

LETTER FROM HEAVEN

To my dearest family, some things I'd like to say...
but first of all, to let you know, that I arrived okay.
I'm writing this from heaven. Here I dwell with God above.
Here, there's no more tears of sadness; here is just eternal love.

Please do not be unhappy just because I'm out of sight.
Remember that I'm with you every morning, noon and night.
That day I had to leave you when my life on earth was through,
God picked me up and hugged me and He said, "I welcome you."

It's good to have you back again; you were missed while you were gone.
As for your dearest family, they'll be here later on.
I need you here badly; you're part of my plan.
There's so much that we have to do, to help our mortal man.

God gave me a list of things, that he wished for me to do.
And foremost on the list, was to watch and care for you.
And when you lie in bed at night, the day's chores put to flight.
God and I are closest to you....in the middle of the night.

When you think of my life on earth, and all those loving years
because you are only human, they are bound to bring you tears.
But do not be afraid to cry; it does relieve the pain.
Remember there would be no flowers, unless there was some rain.

I wish that I could tell you all that God has planned.
But if I were to tell you, you wouldn't understand.
But one thing is for certain, though my life on earth is over.
I'm closer to you now, than I ever was before.

There are many rocky roads ahead of you and many hills to climb;
but together we can do it by taking one day at a time.
It was always my philosophy and I'd like it for you too...
that as you give unto the world, the world will give to you.

If you can help somebody who's in sorrow and pain,
then you can say to God at night......"My day was not in vain."
And now I am contented....that my life has been worthwhile,
knowing as I passed along the way, I made somebody smile.

So if you meet somebody who is sad and feeling low,
just lend a hand to pick him up, as on your way you go.
When you're walking down the street, and you've got me on your mind;
I'm walking in your footsteps only half a step behind.

And when it's time for you to go.... from that body to be free,
remember you're not going.....you're coming here to me.

by **Guardian7347** on Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:51 am

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote:Hey Guardian,

What I meant by the Church is how in old England, the Church had enormous power and influence over the affairs of the country. Just as today, huge corporations have that influence. I know the words "Separation of Church and State" are not actually in The Constitution. However many cases from lower courts all the way to the Supreme Court have sought to interpret that particular part of the Constitution. Its really interesting to read and research. Go back to the founders and see their arguments and reasoning to include it in The Constitution. Even they argued how to word such a principal, and in the end left it to interpretation.

My apologies. I misunderstood you.
I love reading about the founding fathers and the things they said. These men were remarkable individuals whose greatness was beyond imagining.

by **KRSTYSTLCLR** on Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:07 am

I agree. I just love to research and learn new things, but The Constitution and the Bill of rights has soo much to learn from...very interesting.

@ Shara, that poem is really nice. After my mom died, I used to think "Oh, I don't have to wait for Hawaii time to talk to Mom, I can talk to her whenever I want." (I could never just wake up in the morning and call my mom because of the time difference.)
Im glad you posted that. :hugs:

by **Bubbydoll** on Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:25 pm

@ Pkid you took the top score at 66

How many hours do you think you spend online daily and how much is school related?

@ Shara- aww

that was lovely, makes me think of several people. :hugs:

I am not going to catch up in this thread so I am not going to sweat it anymore, I just don't get online enough.

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote:Anyone have a new topic? No, well o.k. then, I saw on CNN a few nights ago an interesting report on the group Anonymous. They are a collective of activists and hackers that gather around certain causes and basically use the internet to create havoc for certain individuals, all the way up to foreign governments. The meme that Jeremy added a few pages back re: The Berkley campus police that pepper sprayed the protesting students was most likely put out by this group. They consider themselves as vindicators for social wrongs. It is being reported that this group is world wide and has had an impact on many world events as of late including some of the Social movements in the Middle East, the retaliation for the freeze on WikkiLeaks, and Occupy Wall Street protests.

During protests such as the Occupy Wall Street events, they can be seen wearing the Mask from V for Vendetta. The Anonymous face. They are also known for using the term "lulz" in their comments on line. They are adept at covering their electronic tracks and will use every resource available to take down anyone or group that they set their sights on.

I think the news report that I saw was intriguing and worrisome. If anyone is interested in this topic, could you please post a link to Wikipedia for this group as I don't know how to do that yet. I'd really like to hear what my fellow DM's think about this group and if anyone knows of other groups like them.

Thanks

I was sort of hoping they would take out Facebook :whistling:

Nerds could do so much more good then all that foolishness and in a lot of cases like Dorn mentioned harm, in my opinion. I did find this other site for you, if you want to look at it. They prolly have a lot of money backing/behind that group or they would have been gone by now. Not sure how much their movement as grown in strength, I personally do not read much about them.

http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/Anonymous

Here is an older article from July about some of them being arrested:
http://techland.time.com/2011/07/19/fbi-arrests-14-suspects-from-hacker-group-anonymous/

by **Bubbydoll** on Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:34 pm

Here's a question:

Think of the last person who you really knew that died. You have the chance to give them 1 hour of life back, but you have to give one year of your life. Do you?

I would gladly give my nanny or my aunt several years of my life to have them come back and have closure with those they love, enjoy a last family meal and hugs, kisses and love. So, if 1 hour is 1 year taken off my life, I would give 10 hrs to someone I loved that much without much thought. I will take the 10 years, and not regret it. Others would be upset at me for doing so, but it would be my choice.
What would you do and who who you give those hours back too and how many hours?

by **physco kid** on Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:35 pm

Bubbydoll wrote:Here's a question:

Think of the last person who you really knew that died. You have the chance to give them 1 hour of life back, but you have to give one year of your life. Do you?

I would gladly give my nanny or my aunt several years of my life to have them come back and have closure with those they love, enjoy a last family meal and hugs, kisses and love. So, if 1 hour is 1 year taken off my life, I would give 10 hrs to someone I loved that much without much thought. I will take the 10 years, and not regret it. Others would be upset at me for doing so, but it would be my choice.
What would you do and who who you give those hours back too and how many hours?

Can it be two people?I never had anybody that I knew died (Yet I am sure I will). But I have heard stories about my grandma (The one on my dads side. She is dead) I really want to meet her. She sounded real sweet and my kind of person!!! :lol:

The amount of hours I would give would be 8 so 8 years of my life. I think I would use the time to get to know her and let my dad talk to her for a final time. I know my dad would love the chance to be with her again. I only know a little of the details. My dad had got a call if I remember right and went to a hospital somewhere in phoenix (It was when we just moved to texas Aka "my old town") My dad didn't tell me what happen to her but all he said was that she was 'Really Sick'. So I guess maybe a form of cancer or old age beat her.

Second one would be my Grandpa ( from my dads side). I would give 9 hours and learn more on what happened to him and what he was like. I dont got any detailing on what happened to him. I guess he was killed during world war II since my dad said he doesnt remember much about him . We still have his (my grandpa's gun) and its got his name carved in it.

by **Guardian7347** on Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:32 am

I wouldn't bring any of them back. Time heals all wounds, but having someone back would be like re-opening the wound. To be reminded of all the little things you loved about them, to hear them and smell them and feel them again? No thanks. I'll let the memories fade to gray thank you very much.

by **Seale** on Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:22 am

Guardian7347 wrote:I wouldn't bring any of them back. Time heals all wounds, but having someone back would be like re-opening the wound. To be reminded of all the little things you loved about them, to hear them and smell them and feel them again? No thanks. I'll let the memories fade to gray thank you very much.

This.

Why would anyone want to feel such emotional trauma? You lose someone, get them back for a few hours, only to lose them AGAIN? That's just torture.

I wouldn't want to bring anyone back. Let the dead rest in peace.

by **tropicalheatwave** on Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:02 am

i agree with guardian and seale except my reason is not because it would be torture. i just don't have the desire to see dead relatives. i rather see the ones that are alive.

by **KRSTYSTLCLR** on Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:12 am

Bubbydoll wrote:http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/Anonymous

Here is an older article from July about some of them being arrested:
http://techland.time.com/2011/07/19/fbi ... anonymous/

That was really interesting Bubby. Thanks for posting it.

I have thought about your other question and looked at every ones posts, and I'm still not sure what I would do. Still debating with meself.

http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/19/10193724-anonymous-says-it-takes-down-fbi-doj-entertainment-sites
I hope I did this right, I just saw it today.

by **jojo** on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:15 pm

I got 32 on that test. :geek:

by **jojo** on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:17 pm

Bubbydoll wrote:Here's a question:

Think of the last person who you really knew that died. You have the chance to give them 1 hour of life back, but you have to give one year of your life. Do you?

One hour doesn't seem like much to give back to me. Would they look like they did when you last saw them? I would pick my grandmother. :heartpump:

by **JeremyM** on Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:07 pm

Bubbydoll wrote:Here's a question:

Think of the last person who you really knew that died. You have the chance to give them 1 hour of life back, but you have to give one year of your life. Do you?

For me it would be my brother, he died when I was a kid.

I don't know what an hour would give me with him, but it might be something my parents would want. I would discuss with them and give up my years for all of them to reunite.

That was a nice poem, SharA.

by **JeremyM** on Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:12 pm

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote:http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/19/10193724-anonymous-says-it-takes-down-fbi-doj-entertainment-sites
I hope I did this right, I just saw it today.

Man those crazies kids at Anonymous are at it again. They seem to get their noses into everything, did they figure out if Swizz Beats owns Megaupload yet?
I wonder why that was the choice target of the FBI?

Interesting article, Krsty.

by **BLUE** on Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:26 pm

If you the power of invisibility, what would you do with it? Would you use it to save Simone, a child maybe? Change the world, for better or not? Rob bankd or watch your crush get undressed?

*curious*

by **physco kid** on Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:28 pm

Tough. Since I am one to root for villians more I'll choose to rob a bank! :lol:

by **BLUE** on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:40 pm

physco kid wrote:Tough. Since I am one to root for villians more I'll choose to rob a bank!

*teases* oohhh that's naughty

by **tropicalheatwave** on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:08 pm

BLUE wrote:If you the power of invisibility, what would you do with it?

that means i could go anywhere for free. go into any airport and travel for free, go to any movie theater, strip club, theme park, sporting event. i'll be all over the place.

by **Jeff_in_Time** on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:37 pm

This thread got big it is almost back to the post total of the last one.
I will have to spam it good to make up.

Excuse my many posts, BD.

Hey Nos and Dorn what is up with all those deleted PM's ya both?

I'll work from the end to many ages ago to where I left off in here.
Hope I don't annoy people with my replies that will be old topics >.>

by **physco kid** on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:34 pm

BLUE wrote:
physco kid wrote:Tough. Since I am one to root for villians more I'll choose to rob a bank!

*teases* oohhh that's naughty

Could be worse :lol:

I gots an imagination

If you were Death (or the Grim reaper) who would you take and who would you spare? ( Fail curiosity) XD

by **Jeff_in_Time** on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:40 pm

BLUE wrote:If you the power of invisibility, what would you do with it? Would you use it to save Simone, a child maybe? Change the world, for better or not? Rob bankd or watch your crush get undressed?

*curious*

I would use it for good >.> Most days.
Be a crime fighter, work for intelligence agencies.
I like how trop threw in "strip club"

by **Jeff_in_Time** on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:44 pm

Bubbydoll wrote:Here's a question:

Think of the last person who you really knew that died. You have the chance to give them 1 hour of life back, but you have to give one year of your life. Do you?

I would gladly give my nanny or my aunt several years of my life to have them come back and have closure with those they love, enjoy a last family meal and hugs, kisses and love. So, if 1 hour is 1 year taken off my life, I would give 10 hrs to someone I loved that much without much thought. I will take the 10 years, and not regret it. Others would be upset at me for doing so, but it would be my choice.
What would you do and who who you give those hours back too and how many hours?

There is BD :hugs:

Did you ever post that pic, if ya did can you link me.
I probably missed 20 pages since gone.

I don't think I would do it BD, I feel selfish saying no nup not doing it, but most have been dead for so long.
And the ones who I know from school who died that is just to raw still.
Giving up years is cool by me, but bringing them back concerns me.

by **Jeff_in_Time** on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:47 pm

With all that green commotion does anyone still want more mods here or still no?
Was it quiet before this latest stuff?

by **KRSTYSTLCLR** on Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:48 pm

BLUE wrote:If you the power of invisibility, what would you do with it? Would you use it to save Simone, a child maybe? Change the world, for better or not? Rob bankd or watch your crush get undressed?

*curious*

I don't think I would use it at all. I mean can you imagine a car driving it's self, a baby being lifted into the air, a drink casually tipping and not spilling. A cute pair of shoes walking themselves out of Macy's? :lol:

Seriously, I wouldn't want that kind of power, even to spy on my worst enemy. I'd rather live life the normal way and not violate others like that.

by **Jeff_in_Time** on Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:09 pm

Bubbydoll wrote:@ jojo's question referring to online addiction. I think I show a few signs, but because of my eyes I am forced to put it aside, so I prolly spend a lot less time then most. I would prolly hate to have a job where I sit and stare at a screen all day, I like to be outside running around more. Haha on the cartoons you posted on addiction. I recall one I saw before that made me laugh and an online addiction test too, I'll post you both.

Here's the test and my results:

http://www.netaddiction.com/index.php?option=com_bfquiz&view=onepage&catid=46&Itemid=106

TAKE IT TOO

Lmao at the cartoon :lol:

here is my result off your test:
Congratulations, your score is: 28

I haven't had internet for awhile so months ago it would have been higher.

by **Guardian7347** on Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:11 am

BLUE wrote:If you the power of invisibility, what would you do with it? Would you use it to save Simone, a child maybe? Change the world, for better or not? Rob bankd or watch your crush get undressed?

*curious*

Are you kidding? I'd be the greatest assassin ever, and the highest paid too. I'd use it for good whenever possible, but the temptation to use it for personal purposes would just be too tempting to resist for long.

by **Nostalgic** on Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:04 am

@ Jeff, no mods still. Sorry bout the deletions. I cleaned up my PMs and they were just replies to your old PMs. Wasn't sure you would come back. I tried emailing you through that option here also. I missed ya.

@ blue. I would use it for good and personal

@ bubby. I'm lucky, I've never had anyone close to me die.

by **SharA2** on Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:05 pm

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote:I agree. I just love to research and learn new things, but The Constitution and the Bill of rights has soo much to learn from...very interesting.

@ Shara, that poem is really nice. After my mom died, I used to think "Oh, I don't have to wait for Hawaii time to talk to Mom, I can talk to her whenever I want." (I could never just wake up in the morning and call my mom because of the time difference.)
Im glad you posted that.

That is wonderful what you said, KRSTY about your mom-- I was lucky to still be at home around my dad when he was dying and died. You are right we can talk to them any time of day we need them and will always know they hear us. :hugs:

Living in Hawaii sounds nice to me.

by **SharA2** on Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:11 pm

Bubbydoll wrote:Here's a question:

Think of the last person who you really knew that died. You have the chance to give them 1 hour of life back, but you have to give one year of your life. Do you?

Since the passing of my dad is pretty recent, I would choose him to give that time back to. I would give one year, two years and on, what ever amount of time was required to say a real goodbye. :heartpump:

BLUE wrote:If you the power of invisibility, what would you do with it? Would you use it to save Simone, a child maybe? Change the world, for better or not? Rob bankd or watch your crush get undressed?

*curious*

Change the world for the better-- I am not interested in invading others privacy for personal gain.

Jeff_in_Time wrote:With all that green commotion does anyone still want more mods here or still no?
Was it quiet before this latest stuff?

I still one or two fair mods would be still a nice addition and help to this website. It was average here before the latest outbursts, sometimes peaceful.

by **KRSTYSTLCLR** on Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:21 pm

I have a new question.

How do you feel about assisted suicide or mercy killings? Would you ever consider your self or someone you love as a candidate for mercy killing or assisted suicide? Under what circumstances would it be O.K.?

Currently, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg are the only places in the would where it is legal. California may be getting a bill on this issue soon.

by **SharA2** on Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:37 pm

I am okay with it, some people suffer so needlessly and I think if they wish to have someone help them end their pain and sufferings because they are incapacitated to do so themselves I would not pass judgment on either person involved. I do not see it as murder-- some do.

by **physco kid** on Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:14 pm

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote:I have a new question.

How do you feel about assisted suicide or mercy killings? Would you ever consider your self or someone you love as a candidate for mercy killing or assisted suicide? Under what circumstances would it be O.K.?

Currently, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg are the only places in the would where it is legal. California may be getting a bill on this issue soon.

I dont see nothing wrong with it. If the person wanted to end their life then let them. I wouldn't judge either person involved. If the person was suffering and couldnt take life and no one was able to help him/her then I could see it ok.
To answer truthfully if I saw myself as a candidate. I do when I cant take life -_-.

by **KRSTYSTLCLR** on Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:26 pm

SharA2 wrote:That is wonderful what you said, KRSTY about your mom-- I was lucky to still be at home around my dad when he was dying and died. You are right we can talk to them any time of day we need them and will always know they hear us. Living in Hawaii sounds nice to me.

I'm sorry Shara, I missed this when I posted earlier. I was with my mom for a few weeks near the end, but most of the time, she had no idea who I was. She had inoperable brain cancer. It's been almost 10 years, but I am glad for the time I did have. I said goodby by just being there. I'm glad for you to have had the time with your dad as well. :hugs:

by **tsetse22** on Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:36 am

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote:I have a new question.

How do you feel about assisted suicide or mercy killings? Would you ever consider your self or someone you love as a candidate for mercy killing or assisted suicide? Under what circumstances would it be O.K.?

Currently, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg are the only places in the would where it is legal. California may be getting a bill on this issue soon.

Complicated issue really. I know suicide is a crime b/c it victimizes surviving loved ones. But going out by your own hand or intentionally assisted to die when you are near death due to disease process would be acceptable (to me) but only when the condition was verified and the amount of pain and suffering involved considered. That takes someone making a life or death judgement for another like a prescription... so it's not a good road to go down or legalize.

by **jojo** on Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:55 am

BLUE wrote:If you the power of invisibility, what would you do with it? Would you use it to save Simone, a child maybe? Change the world, for better or not? Rob bankd or watch your crush get undressed?

*curious*

Peek in on some poster's here and see if they are who they claim to be. :infinity:

Jeff_in_Time wrote:With all that green commotion does anyone still want more mods here or still no?
Was it quiet before this latest stuff?

Think site only has one mod, that is odd, right? Only 1.

Hi btw Jeff. :wave:

by **jojo** on Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:00 am

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote:I have a new question.

How do you feel about assisted suicide or mercy killings? Would you ever consider your self or someone you love as a candidate for mercy killing or assisted suicide? Under what circumstances would it be O.K.?

Currently, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg are the only places in the would where it is legal. California may be getting a bill on this issue soon.

I automatically think DR K when I think about that, he was demonized for what he did.

I'd want it done if I was in the state of someone like what-was-her-name, Terri schiavo?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case

Cali is so scared of anything real, like weed or gay marriages this would never pass there, would it?

by **BLUE** on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:21 am

KRSTYSTLCLR wrote:I have a new question.

How do you feel about assisted suicide or mercy killings? Would you ever consider your self or someone you love as a candidate for mercy killing or assisted suicide? Under what circumstances would it be O.K.?

Currently, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg are the only places in the would where it is legal. California may be getting a bill on this issue soon.

I am all for it. I have worked in healthcare and have not only watched the patients suffer but the family too. There is pain that meds don't cover. What if their is no pain but they can't breathe? Watching someone struggle for air for hours...or days is horrible. There are very few things that are scarier for someone to not be able to breathe. What do you say to the family when the ask with tear filled eyes "How much longer?" There is no right answer. We don't know until close to the very end.

I think it would have to be someone terminally ill and it has to be their decision. Even today if you are firing and a Dnr, if you have a Poa for healthcare, once you are out of it they make all the decisions. They may change their mind and you could wake up on a ventilator. It happens more then you think. In the end sometimes the poa cannot take the pressure and everything gets changed.

For me, I would like all the people I loved with me to say goodbye and then go peacefully. No more suffering and no pain.

by **Guardian7347** on Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:11 am

I agree with Tsetse. While I wouldn't fault either party if a terminally ill patient living with extreme pain decided to end their own life and needed help doing it, I'm loathe to actually legalize the process. Once legalized, how long before you go from only the verified terminally ill with extreme pain being permitted to die and just letting really old people with low standards of living die. Or people who become quadriplegic. Before long, people will begin to feel obligated to kill themselves if they feel like a burden on their loved ones, and maybe you even end up with "loved ones" encouraging assisted suicide.

by **KRSTYSTLCLR** on Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:43 am

Of the states that allow assisted suicide, there are very specific guidelines that have to be followed so this doesn't happen. Namely, a licensed, practicing medical Doctor has to evaluate the client and find that Modern medicine cannot provide sufficient relief and that the person is suffering with out hope for relief as a result of their affliction. Suffering is further described. I wish I had more details to add to this topic, but I cannot post any links right now.

I don't believe anyone would take the subject so lightly as to eventually come to what you describe Guardian. But as a person who has seen first hand, what happens at the end of life and cared for many patients with cancer and debilitating MS, I agree with Blue.

by **KRSTYSTLCLR** on Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:06 pm

jojo wrote:Cali is so scared of anything real, like weed or gay marriages this would never pass there, would it?

^That's kind of funny Jojo. California has nearly 200,000 medical marijuana dispensaries. It's the Federal Government that is the biggest risk to outlawing the practice. Gay marriage was legal for a short time until Religious activists became involved and overturned that right.

As far as assisted suicide or compassionate assisted suicide is concerned, when does what other people think is right for a suffering individual outweigh that persons right to choose death over needless suffering? If laws are written to clarify in what conditions and circumstances will no one be held criminally accountable, what is the objection then? The alternative might be for a loved one to assist in the passing of a spouse, child, parent etc. and go to jail for doing so, even though it was done to end needless suffering. When does the right of those left behind outweigh the individuals right to choose death over living hell?