Is Chief Wahoo disrespectful to Indians?

[operatormike]

This has been on my mind recently. So, I would like to get your opinions. See, I have been telling about a story that happened to me on Sam Zee's Story Thread. (Here's the link: The Story Thread!

Anyway, it made me think about the Chief Wahoo controversy.
Here is a Wikipedia link if you want to read up on it:
Chief Wahoo



You see, Chief Wahoo is the cartoon style logo of the Cleveland Indians, it (or should I say he) has been for millions of years or so. (Maybe not an exact count, okay?) Lately,starting in 1994, Native American (Indians) have protested the use of this. They claim that by showing a red man's smiling face with a large nose, it is demeaning to their people.

The Indians Ballclub responded one year, a few years back. First there was a press release about how the name is a sign of respect, not disrespect for the Native Americans. And that baseball is one of the most integrated national sports...including Natives. Many of the Hispanic players have some Native roots. In fact, some claim that the nickname Indians for Cleveland's team started because one of their players was a Native, Louis Sockalexis. Others claim otherwise.

Next, the Indians released a series of Chief Wahoo hats...with a provocative variety of colors in addtion to the traditional red. Some where white, some black, some yellow, some tan...and fans responded by wearing Wahoo's depicting their own race!!! It was something to see. Solidarity in sending a message that this was not racism, by taking it head on and making Wahoo integrated! I liked it, especially the fan response.
Anywho, the Cleveland Spiders officially changed their name to Indians early in the 20th century. The logo evolved over time to the one seen above.

On a personal note, I have nothing but love and respect for Native American "Indians". I once dated a young lady who's Grandpa was pure Cherokee. I was best friend with her twin brother. So, when I first heard of the protests, I went over to a neighbor's house who is Native. He dresses completely mainstream American, but his wife is from the Southwest and is much more traditional Native; with her long "black" braids and turquoise jewelry and such. I asked him if he thought the Indians should drop the Chief Wahoo logo. He said, "I hope not, I would have to throw out half of my clothes!" He thought, as I do, that no disrespect is intended by the logo.

So what do you think?

[BLUE]

No, I don't think it is disrespectful. Although I am not an Indian either. In my opinion we have become Way To Over-Sensitive to all of this. I hate when some people pull that racism card when there is none there. In fact when people do pull that card, it makes me think that they have nothing else to fall back on in an argument. "oh you don't like me because I am (fill in blank)!" "No, I don't like you because you are being a jerk. It has nothing do with what you look like but who you are inside." Now I do believe in embracing who you are and where you come from but not to this point. When did we get so over-sensitive??? Have we gotten to the point of defending who we are that we can no longer laugh at ourselves? I am a short, blonde, German, Italian, French girl with large endowments. I love who I am and where I come from and I am also the first person do make fun of myself when I do something stupid. In fact I am so busy looking at all of your insides that I often forget what everyone looks like. To me there is no such thing as an Ugly person, unless you are ugly on the inside. I grew up with a Red Indian on my cheerleader sweater and never once thought it a bad thing. I Loved It!I graduated to being a Red Devil. Please don't tell me the Holy Rollers are coming to get me now

[jojo]

No, it isn't.

If it was deemed disrespectful by the masses it would have been a quick removal and change way back when. Once a large group of people cry out and a corporation thinks they will have a scandal and loss of revenue they move quick to modify whatever. So if they haven't, not too many find it disrespectful or offensive, imo.

[Soulkiss333]

JoJo
Well Natives only make .9% of population (we were close to completely getting wipe out), not even 1%, so even if we all yell that this was disrespectful to us, we would still only represent (.9% )of the pop...so it would never be the masses. We are not going to hurt anyone's revenue.

Oh yes this. Cleveland Indians, Atlanta Braves, Washington Redskins...

I dont at all find it offensive. It would have to be fuel by hatred for me to get upset. I think a lot of Natives dont care but there are a lot who do. I think for some they find it disrespectful because they are still upset about the past (and looking for something to complain about...ppl always looking to blame others for their unhappiness) and many including my mother lives on these reservations and the conditions still sucks. Not good water etc., when they handed us out the land we got crappy land. So, I think they are mad because the conditions never improve and that someone not Native is making tons of money off their name/race (while they still live in bad conditions) and they were never asked and they dont like an American things using their name or race that they dont support, kinda like if some group you hated turn around and use your race to represent them... you might find that offensive, that might pissed you off, especially if you were never asked as a culture and they just use your name/race. Some feel that is disrespectful, you are using someone's real culture (identity) to represent something they hate whether you think they should just get over it or not, it is still their culture/name and it is upsetting to them. Yeah, many Natives are very nice but trust me, too many still hold a very hatred grudge. So, I understand some of them but I am like Blue I think it is being way too sensitive and I still dont believe you should live in the past, it cant be redone and dont see this being fuel by hatred. BTW, we do have noses like that, haha!

[operatormike]

Thank you, BLUE:

"oh you don't like me because I am (fill in blank)!" "No, I don't like you because you are being a jerk. It has nothing do with what you look like but who you are inside."

Reminds me of a Martin Luther King quote from the "I have a dream." speech on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial: "I have a dream that one day my four children will live in a land where they are judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." He gets it and wants us all to get it. You have to do more than make laws requiring fair treatment of everyone, you have to look past the outside and see the character. On the other hand, you have to make sure that you have a good character by which people will judge you.

Thank you, Jojo.

and thank you Soul Kiss;

It would have to be fuel by hatred for me to get upset.

That is the heart of the issue. Chief Wahoo and the name Indians was always a tribute to the bravery and fearlessness that Native American Indians were said to have. You choose a logo for your team that you can rally around, like Vikings, also known to be fearless and brave.
...and

BTW, we do have noses like that, haha!

The Indians team has a charity called Indians Charities (go figure). Maybe the Native American protesters focus should be to ask for some of that money to be funneled towards Native American reservations.

Peace,
OM

[shweet leef]

Give them enuogh land to biuld a casino and they will shut up.

[operatormike]

Dear Shweetie,

Even though you seem to be offering this in a semi-cynical, semi-humorous vein, I think that you might have something there. Rather than have this charity that continually funnels money to some reservation, help them build something (like a casino) that will enable them to make money.

Like the old saying goes, Give and man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.

peace,
OM

[JeremyM]

I am on the no side - like Blue said previously people can be too sensitive. I am sure there was a huge pow wow (lolz) over what image to use to rep that team and that is what they chose, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. 2c

[jojo]

JoJo
Well Natives only make .9% of population (we were close to completely getting wipe out), not even 1%, so even if we all yell that this was disrespectful to us, we would still only represent (.9% )of the pop...so it would never be the masses. We are not going to hurt anyone's revenue.

No, I meant the whole community there not only seen as disrespectful by the Native Americans, I would assume some would take offense but not necessarily all within the Native American community. The logo is very cartoonish and because of that maybe it was seen as light hearted, idk?

[shweet leef]

Dear Shweetie,

Even though you seem to be offering this in a semi-cynical, semi-humorous vein, I think that you might have something there. Rather than have this charity that continually funnels money to some reservation, help them build something (like a casino) that will enable them to make money.

Like the old saying goes, Give and man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.

peace,
OM

I am pretty serious,I have two very nice casinos not far from me,and you can wear a Cleveland Indian shirt or a redskins shirt or even wear a Mohawk into the place as long as your money is green,you are good to go and they are happy to take it.

[RockPillow®]

They're offended because what these mascots say to them is that their image is something that can be manipulated and discarded by white people. It's quite similar to what has been done to their race.

The ignorance, bigotry, and appropriation in this thread makes me sick. It would take up too much of my time to call all of it out.

[operatormike]

OK, Shweetie,
I misinterpreted your tone, but still a great suggestion.

Rockie,
First, I like the registered trademark sign after your name, nice touch. Secondly, i think that everyone who has posted here gets the gist of why some Natives are offended. Especially Soul Kiss who is a Native American "Indian". ( read her post carefully)

The counterpoint is that this symbol was not meant out of disrespect or hatred, but quite the opposite. It was meant to show respect and appreciation for a strong willed, courageous people. Also the posts are pretty much the opposite of bigoted.

This said, it is good to have the other side expressed here. Thanks for your frank opinion.

Like I mentioned in my first post, I was considering getting rid of all my Chief Wahoo stuff out of respect for the protester's intentions. I talked to my Native American neighbor about it and he said he always liked the fact that the team had chosen his people to represent them. He felt it was more like idolizing than denigrating. That changed my mind.

Peace,
OM